Genetic manipulation of human beings for the purposes of space exploration

[Lancer]

Re: Re: Genetic manipulation of human beings for the purposes of space exploration

Originally posted by DanS


Human beings manipulated genetically to spaceflight suitability has been imagined. Seikai no Senki (Banner of the Stars) anime is a good one where a certain class of human beings are manipulated for spaceflight and obedience. However, this manipulation turns on the makers -- the genetically manipulated come to rule normal human beings.

It makes a story, like the rise of computers/machines/apes/whatever. If they don't rebel, there are no sales.

[Zkribbler]

Originally posted by BlackCat

I mentioned wind mills as a possible source of energy to produce rocket propellants and you think that I belive that wind mills is the future source of energy

Because water is 1000 times thicker than air, IMHO, ocean-current power will be a much better source to use than wind power.

[Sandman]

Solar power.

[Heraclitus]

Fusion power
Solar power

BTW Elok is silly. Even now we are capable of harnessing nuclear energy, a type of energy not available to any other creature on Earth, despite billions of years of evolution. Imagine what is possible in another millennia or so.

[Zkribbler]

Sandman, that's Saville in Spain. Right?

Right now, "solar inks" are being perfected. They can be affixed onto tape, and then applied to buildings. They'll be able to absorb a much wider spectrum of the light, and so they'll be more efficient -- and they're also far less expensive.

Soon, the heavy, rigid, expensive, inefficient solar panels will be replaced by a lightweight, flexible, inexpensive, efficient application.

[Geronimo]

Originally posted by Bkeela
Humans must change. Either we create robots more intelligent than us to take control of the galaxy and preserve sentience and biological life, or we change ourselves to better suit space travel and better suit civilization.

Homo sapiens are only one step up from Neanderthals. Enough said really, but Jesus Christ people are retarded. Even highly trained astronauts can't get over primitive, petty, human affairs.

How are Homo sapiens meant to cope in claustrophic living pods in space colonies when we can't even govern a small town properly?

Sorry - Homo sapien deserves extinction.

All of the other species we've encountered are just as bad. Do you wish extinction on them as well? If so how are lifeless dead rocks like mars somehow better than the earth? If not what is the difference? How are all of those other species we've encountered less deserving of extinction than humans given the complaints you offered about humans are just as true for the other species nearly always vastly moreso in fact.

[BlackCat]

Originally posted by Bkeela
How are Homo sapiens meant to cope in claustrophic living pods in space colonies when we can't even govern a small town properly?

Sorry - Homo sapien deserves extinction.

You apparently have no idea about the conditions of the ships that brought your antcestors to your current home.

Humans are very adabtable and can easily live in cramped pods - all that are needed are a bit of decivilization.

[Elok]

Originally posted by Heraclitus
Fusion power
Solar power

BTW Elok is silly. Even now we are capable of harnessing nuclear energy, a type of energy not available to any other creature on Earth, despite billions of years of evolution. Imagine what is possible in another millennia or so.

..and we're going to have little reactors in our torsos, eh? No? Then this is all moot. We are a wonderfully versatile species, it's moronic to want to improve on what we've got. In any case, it's better to have to bother with an aqualung than to resort to expensive, tricky-to-reverse gene-splicing or whatever to give ourselves gills. We've come this far by knowing how to manipulate our environment. Transhumanists, in addition to being implausible, have it completely backwards.

Lancer, by pseudo-gnostic I mean that, while not condemning the physical world as evil (ie true gnosticism), you seem to have contempt for the fleshly side of your human nature, like you're some sort of soul in an irrelevant package. It's a grotesque heresy, I'm glad it died out and distressed that it's making a comeback.

[Aeson]

GM Babies

[Geronimo]

Originally posted by Elok


..and we're going to have little reactors in our torsos, eh? No? Then this is all moot. We are a wonderfully versatile species, it's moronic to want to improve on what we've got. In any case, it's better to have to bother with an aqualung than to resort to expensive, tricky-to-reverse gene-splicing or whatever to give ourselves gills. We've come this far by knowing how to manipulate our environment. Transhumanists, in addition to being implausible, have it completely backwards.

Lancer, by pseudo-gnostic I mean that, while not condemning the physical world as evil (ie true gnosticism), you seem to have contempt for the fleshly side of your human nature, like you're some sort of soul in an irrelevant package. It's a grotesque heresy, I'm glad it died out and distressed that it's making a comeback.

We are adapted to an environment and lifestyle that no longer exists and is impossible to recreate for billions of people. We suffer all sorts of maladies and afflictions from this poor adaptation. Are you opposed to all possible forms of genetic adaptation? are you convinced that it would never be plausible to address some of these problems of maladaptation through genetic engineering? Or are you only opposed to the notion of people reinventing what it will mean to be human by pursuing extreme transhumanist goals?

[Dry]

Originally posted by BlackCat
Rockets don't use fossile fuels as propellant.

I was unsure, so I did a small search...

http://www.friends-partners.org/partners/mwade/stages/prottype.htm

And while stages 2 and 3 were LOx/LH2, it seems first stage of SaturnV was LOx/Kerosene

http://www.friends-partners.org/partners/mwade/lvs/saturnv.htm

[Heraclitus]

Saturn V is not vehicle that will enable space colonisation.

[Elok]

Until such time as we develop the ability to travel at about twenty times the speed of light (at least), which according to current notions of physics is impossible, there's no practical point to space colonization. Do you want to live on the moon or Mars?

Geronimo: It's hard to tell what you mean. What kind of alterations are you thinking of? Giving us the ability to digest cellulose or something like that? Or are you thinking of gene therapy to correct disorders, etc? What aspects of our anatomy are maladapted for our current lifestyle? I'm not ruling out the possibility of alteration entirely, I'm just saying that ATM we're splendid generalists and we need to appreciate what we've got. It's MUCH easier to change our environment, or the tools we use to interact with it, than ourselves.

[Zkribbler]

Originally posted by BlackCat


You apparently have no idea about the conditions of the ships that brought your antcestors to your current home.

Humans are very adabtable and can easily live in cramped pods - all that are needed are a bit of decivilization.

Well, they can't "easily live." 1 out of 11 African slaves dies on the way over. 1 out of 9 Irishmen also died.

[Geronimo]

Originally posted by Elok
Until such time as we develop the ability to travel at about twenty times the speed of light (at least), which according to current notions of physics is impossible, there's no practical point to space colonization. Do you want to live on the moon or Mars?

Geronimo: It's hard to tell what you mean. What kind of alterations are you thinking of? Giving us the ability to digest cellulose or something like that? Or are you thinking of gene therapy to correct disorders, etc? What aspects of our anatomy are maladapted for our current lifestyle? I'm not ruling out the possibility of alteration entirely, I'm just saying that ATM we're splendid generalists and we need to appreciate what we've got. It's MUCH easier to change our environment, or the tools we use to interact with it, than ourselves.

I meant all of the above. What kinds of geneitc modification are you dismissing as impossible/meaningless and what forms (if any) do accept as plausible and possibly worthwhile?

The list of maladaptations would be too huge to list here. Basically it includes things like massively craving foods we need only in moderation over those that would be optimal choices for the bulk of our diet. Or the poor engineering of our backs as a weight bearing structure or the way the circulation of the retina passes in front of it introducing a blind spot and allowing for detached retinas (squids and octopi have very similar eyes but lack this defect) or the way the body fails to include a variety of proteins in it's "whitelist" of self antigens allowing for all manner of autoimmune afflictions from insulin dependent diabetes to arthritis or the way our body is no longer able to produce several essential vitamins that most other animals have no difficulty synthesizing or the way fevers will cause permanent brain damage even though they almost never confer a significant survival advantage or the way pain will persist when the cause cannot be treated or even does not represent actual damage or danger to tissues or the way that the duration of time consumed sleeping appears to be more related to a way to conserve energy than to accomplish it's neurological roles (our sleep cycle should be able to complete it's essential functions in a fraction of the time it actually uses) or the way scar tissue forms even when it's formation will block the recovery of healthy functional tissue making temporary injuries into permanent ones the list actually goes on and on. Our bodies are full of suboptimal flaws.