Remembrance/Armistice Day

[Wezil]

Originally posted by notyoueither

If you want to go way over the hill and discuss Wilson, libertarianism, and Kansas turkeys, start a thread. This isn't a good place for it.

I'd suggest the History Subforum.

[Berzerker]

I didn't start, nor invite a discussion of 'Eurotrash' or 'hissy fits'.

I said the dead dont write poems and you thought it necessary to list his credentials. You responded to me...

[Dr Strangelove]

I agree with Berz. WW1 just doesn't do anything for me. It's not a titanic struggle of philosophies, but instead it's like an entire era of history shooting itself in the foot, a monumental mistake. WW1 is almost a Freudian neurosis of an entire civilization. To really understand WW1 you have to go out and find an old movie called The King of Hearts .

[Berzerker]

good movie, funny movie

[SlowwHand]

Originally posted by Rufus T. Firefly
I've never been able to fathom the popularity of In Flanders Field. If there's any single poem that should never, ever be used to remember WWI, it's a poem that urges the listener to



It's that kind of thinking that made WWI the tragedy it was to begin with. Christ, I hate that poem.

But in the spirit of the day, I offer this instead:



* Translation: It is sweet and fitting to die for one's country

If it was worth going to war, it's worth seeing it through; otherwise, they died for nothing. Pretty much the same as what you find acceptable.
"Flander's Field" is read at every Memorial Day gathering at the VFW. Sad, yes. So is Taps. So is Missing Man Formation.
I kind of understand it making you uneasy or sad, but to hate it, that's beyond me.

[Berzerker]

no one in war dies for nothing...if we remember why they died...

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Dr Strangelove
I agree with Berz. WW1 just doesn't do anything for me. It's not a titanic struggle of philosophies, but instead it's like an entire era of history shooting itself in the foot, a monumental mistake. WW1 is almost a Freudian neurosis of an entire civilization. To really understand WW1 you have to go out and find an old movie called The King of Hearts .

I thought about starting a thread to 'even the score'. I thought better of it since anything I would say would likely be unpleasant for some of the readers.

Let me suffice to say that you are a piece of ****, Doc. Trolling a memorial thread is real class.

[Berzerker]

what score would you even? You gonna argue all those people who suffered in WWI suffered for a worthy cause? That is the cause the author of the poem is asking others to take up or effectively spit on those who already died.

[notyoueither]

Yes, doofus.

I would expect that the author of the poem hoped the deaths to not be in vain.

Call me a wild and crazy guy, but that is a totally understandable sentiment from a person putting his life on the line.

Pinheads like you are totally free to question his words and values, but I'd suggest (more strongly this time) that you are choosing the wrong place and time to do it.

[Berzerker]

But his poem says they did die in vain if the living dont take up the cause.

So, start a thread arguing all those people who suffered because of WW I were an acceptable cost for "the cause". Throw in the victims of WW II while you're at it since WW I was so integral to later developments.

Oh yeah, vulgar insults is what this thread really needed.

[Ben Kenobi]

Start a thread, Berz. I'm not interested in a debate with you here.

No that's fine. Don't worry about it NYE.

I really appreciate what you have had to say here. McCrae was a combat medic, and I think the last thing he wanted was for his friends to die in vain, that their sacrifice would be forgotten and not honoured.

I don't see the "to you with failing hands we throw" is wrong, it is a challenge, that we live up to the example that these men set for each of us, they were willing to give up their lives for one another in the service of their country.

I think that is a very noble and honourable thing to do. Thank you again NYE. You have said it better then I ever could.

[Mrs. Tuberski]

any solider that died in any war didnt die in vain as the poets are adressing, it is up to the person readint o gather what is being said. Whether we agree with the wars of our past is irrevelant, but rather how we remember those that died to get us all were we are
now.
God bless Our past and present soliders........

[Berzerker]

McCrae was a combat medic, and I think the last thing he wanted was for his friends to die in vain, that their sacrifice would be forgotten and not honoured.

Take up our quarrel with the foe:
To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.

He isn't asking us to remember, he's asking us to join the fight and if we dont the dead wont sleep. Telling a 17 year old kid his father died in a WW I trench in France is bad enough without telling him his father wont sleep if the kid doesn't sign up to fight.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Well, to be honest, if you were French during WW1, it was your country that was being invaded.

[Dr Strangelove]

Yeah, but France was fighting to support the Russian claim to be the rightful big daddy of the Balkans peoples in support of a claim by a Serbian dictator (king = dictator) on territory populated by a different ethnic group who didn't want Serbian or Austrian rule.

After the war the great powers would amalgamate 5 distinct ethnic groups into a country which these ethnic groups would wind up fighting bitterly to break up.

Maybe it would have been better for Russia to have been humiliated by the Germans and Austrians so she would stop wasting time on extra-territorial pretenions and pay attention to problems at home. Maybe democratic France really had no business tieing herself to the monstrous autocaracy that was Tsarist Russia. More logicallly she should have allied herself with democratic Britain.

Maybe Serbia deserved a spanking by the Austrains for sponsoring international terrorism. It's not like there was much to prefer between the two. Isn't it ironic that as payment for defending a nation that sponsored assassins the Tsar was himself assassinated?