Failure to Pay a Prostitute: Rape or Theft?

[Dr Strangelove]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker


No way that would remove the consent after the fact. Otherwise ALL prostitution would be rape, even if the guy did pay.

I don't have any personal experience with hookers, but I believe that because prostitution is illegal prostitutes often don't come right out and say that they're prostitutes. If a prostitute leans into some guy's car and says to him "BJ for $100", if that guy's an undercover cop then she's nailed. They start a conversation then drop hints that they might be willing to do something and at some point mention a sum of money. Is it not conceivable that someone could indicate consent, let the hooker finish the deed, deny having agreed to pay her and then drive off?

[Alinestra Covelia]

In that situation, generally the prostitute has a few safeguards. In some desperate situations there's a male accomplice standing by to provide some muscle in case of bad tricks.

Generally, though, the guy who's asking for sex has more to lose than the prostitute. The prostitute is already in trouble with the law simply for doing what she does, but the guys who patronize her evidently have enough money to pay for her services. This usually means a fairly regular job, which may be jeopardized by the deal.

She can get a description of the man, including some very personal details (genital descriptions have played a part in convictions for some cases). If he's got a car, that's even more they can use to ID him in a courtroom.

The politics of the courtroom also means that the prostitute herself will likely get off the hook easily with a lighter penalty if she will divulge those who made use of her services. (In a jurisdiction where the crime of prostitution snares both the practitioner and her patrons.)

It's all a muddle. The moral of this story is not to go anywhere near prostitutes.

Buy a Wii instead and play Nintendo games. They're much more hygienic and you can bring your friends.

[Wezil]

This has been a busy thread. I'm still catching up but this is exactly where I'm at on the issue:

Originally posted by Alinestra Covelia
However, the woman here consented to the penetration, under certain conditions. The fact that she gave her consent under certain conditional factors under her current knowledge (that she would be paid) does not nullify her consent.

I am also having difficulty with the retroactive removal of consent.

A confounding factor here is that prostitution itself can be completely illegal in areas. In which case, the court will generally not attempt to uphold a defective contract. (It treats the contract as though it never even occurred.)

Exactly. The law won't enforce illegal contracts. If your buddy steals your dope stash you can't have the police charge him with theft...

Absent the contract, the woman's consent is based on a legal nullity, thus the man never had her consent. (???)

I don't know but the poster mentioning the 'sex obtained by fraudulent deception' type law has the answer to the problem.

NB Everything I've just said could be wrong. I'm typing this in the middle of a Constitutional Law class on Abortion, and I'm also getting very hungry as I type this.

Good analysis imho.

[Wezil]

Originally posted by Alinestra Covelia
Hence even if you view the illegal contract as a "lack of consent", it does NOT mean there was refusal. Merely a neutral lack of a "yes". Hence, we avoid the issue of rape by a clever dodge, which I gather is what lawyering is all about

I'm liking this poster.

[MosesPresley]

Originally posted by Wezil
Exactly. The law won't enforce illegal contracts. If your buddy steals your dope stash you can't have the police charge him with theft...

But, if you don't declare your illegal dope sales on your tax return, you can be charged with tax evasion.

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Lorizael
If at any point the prostitute realizes what's going, changes her mind, and no longer wants to have sex it immediately becomes rape.

Yup

Its no different than if a guy picks up a girl in a bar , bangs her silly and then pulls a knife and robs her-- Thats a robbery

If the girl goes with the guy and he pulls the knife BEFORE the sex, then that would be rape. The fact that she would have consented prior to the knife appearing is irrelevent because the threat of violence is preventing her fronm withdrawing consent.

[Flubber]

Originally posted by General Ludd



Ah yes, the good ol' choice to starve.

HOw many people actually starve in Canada or the US?

[Wezil]

Originally posted by MosesPresley


But, if you don't declare your illegal dope sales on your tax return, you can be charged with tax evasion.

To not declare it would be ripping the government off. They won't have that.

[Elok]

Originally posted by Flubber
HOw many people actually starve in Canada or the US?

Probably a surprising number in the U.S., but I imagine most of them are homeless. Don't know how much income you could make as a homeless prostitute: "hey, baby, wanna do it in this alley?"

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by MosesPresley


But, if you don't declare your illegal dope sales on your tax return, you can be charged with tax evasion.

I file tax returns for self-employed "entertainers" so they can get the earned income tax credit.

[Kidlicious]

Anyone who goes hungry in the US is either on drugs or a child of someone on drugs.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Ninot
I wonder how Vegas would prosecute this if the guy was going into legal brothels and running out without paying.

First of all there are no legal brothels in Vegas; they're in some of the other counties in Nevada but not Clark County. Not to say their isn't a whole lot of pay for play going on in Vegas but it is technically illegal.

In the places where it is legal it would likely be treated as theft or breach of contract. Either way the guy is likely to get the crap beat out of him by the bouncers before the cops come and arrest him.

[b etor]

Originally posted by Arrian
Sex is evil?

-Arrian

evil's a sin
sins are forgiven
so stick it in?

[Grandpa Troll]

Originally posted by rah
Prostitution is not rape, it's a business transaction.
Unless something changes during the transaction and she want's to back out and you force her after that.
Then it's rape, but i'd review the circumstances. As in this case where the man took a detour and the prostitutes probably weren't consensual at this point, so I'd call rape.

If you simply don't pay afterwards. Theft.
No different than dine and dash.

rah, just asking, did something "happen" during your Birthday celebration we should know about, or maybe this happened to a "friend"?

Also, about this:

If you simply don't pay afterwards. Theft.
No different than dine and dash.

Umm.. tell us ya didnt ..umm..pay some or rather your "friend" didnt pay a young thang to , how did ya put it, "Dine and Dash"..

I cant tell ya, but that might make your "friend" a little more than sick, of course..


So, in closing, if its your Birthday, and your so called buddy wants to know if ya want to eat a special treat for your birthday meal, just say no to snowballs..trust me

[Wezil]

What was that all about?!