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Ludd's problem is that rape isn't "sex with someone who doesn't want to have sex with you," it's "sex with someone who doesn't consent to have sex with you."
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Rape is rape. Is doesn't matter if you can coerce them into doing it "willingly" - whether it be through money, blackmail, manipulation, or violence - it is still rape.Originally posted by Arrian
Oh, I agree they don't want to have sex with you, but they agree to in exchange for money.
Hence the term wage slavery.I don't *want* to be here in my cubicle handling environmental claims, either. But I do it because they pay me.
-Arrian
Free yourself!
Rethink Refuse Reduce Reuse
Do It OurselvesComment
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Is that true even if the act is over and done with and he just decides she wasn't worth paying for?Originally posted by Lorizael
If at any point the prostitute realizes what's going, changes her mind, and no longer wants to have sex it immediately becomes rape.I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator RubioComment
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If they realy wanted to have sex with you, then they wouldn't care if they didn't get paid, thus the topic of this discussion wouldn't apply.Originally posted by Lorizael
You CANNOT make this generalization. While it may be true in a lot of instances, you simply do not know. Base your conclusions off of evidence and logic, not your opinions.Rethink Refuse Reduce Reuse
Do It OurselvesComment
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Yes, but the act would still be illegal for other reasons.Originally posted by Kuciwalker
The converse of that, Lori, is that if they didn't figure out until afterwards it's not rape.
It would still be rape, however, if you could argue that sex under conditions other than those you dictate (i.e. getting paid for the act) is not sex you want to have, and so becomes nonconsenual when those conditions are not met (the bastard doesn't pay you).Click here if you're having trouble sleeping.
"We confess our little faults to persuade people that we have no large ones." - François de La RochefoucauldComment
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In Australia it isn't rape to intentionally fail to pay a prostitute for sex. It is still a crime though--procuring sexual penetration by fraud (a crime that covers any kind of fraud really, not just prostitution). It has a lesser penalty attached and does not consider whether the other person, i.e. the prostitute, actually consented to the penetration--rather only whether the intercourse was procured by some fraud or another."You say that it is your custom to burn widows. Very well. We also have a custom: when men burn a woman alive, we tie a rope around their necks and we hang them. Build your funeral pyre; beside it, my carpenters will build a gallows. You may follow your custom. And then we will follow ours."--General Sir Charles James NapierComment
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Kuciwalker's problem is that he has patriarchal values that rationalises and condones rape.Originally posted by Kuciwalker
Ludd's problem is that rape isn't "sex with someone who doesn't want to have sex with you," it's "sex with someone who doesn't consent to have sex with you."Rethink Refuse Reduce Reuse
Do It OurselvesComment
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Honestly, this depends on how contracts work in the individual state. In some places verbal contracts are as good as written ones, in other places not. That's why prostitution should be legalized. It would work out all those kinks.Originally posted by DinoDoc
Is that true even if the act is over and done with and he just decides she wasn't worth paying for?Click here if you're having trouble sleeping.
"We confess our little faults to persuade people that we have no large ones." - François de La RochefoucauldComment
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Originally posted by Lorizael
Yes, but the act would still be illegal for other reasons.
Yes, but he's charged with rape.
It would still be rape, however, if you could argue that sex under conditions other than those you dictate (i.e. getting paid for the act) is not sex you want to have, and so becomes nonconsenual when those conditions are not met (the bastard doesn't pay you).
I don't buy it.Comment
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Would that mean that you think it isn't rape now but some sort of fraud?Originally posted by Lorizael
Honestly, this depends on how contracts work in the individual state.I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator RubioComment
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I think Ludd just admitted I won.Comment
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Does that mean that any woman who has sex with a man for reasons other than wanting sex - like, say, trying to convince him to go to the ballet tomorrow night - is being raped?Originally posted by General Ludd
If they realy wanted to have sex with you, then they wouldn't care if they didn't get paid, thus the topic of this discussion wouldn't apply.Click here if you're having trouble sleeping.
"We confess our little faults to persuade people that we have no large ones." - François de La RochefoucauldComment
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Offering money is coercion? I disagree.Originally posted by General Ludd
Rape is rape. Is doesn't matter if you can coerce them into doing it "willingly" - whether it be through money, blackmail, manipulation, or violence - it is still rape.
Hence the term wage slavery. Free yourself!
I *knew* wage slavery was coming. Bah.
Our core beliefs are probably too far apart to find any middle ground on this one. I agree to disagree.
-Arriangrog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!
The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.Comment
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I said you could make that argument. I don't necessarily buy it either, but it's an interesting point to consider.Originally posted by Kuciwalker
I don't buy it.
In response to you and DD: If she consents, I think it should probably just be fraud of some sort.Click here if you're having trouble sleeping.
"We confess our little faults to persuade people that we have no large ones." - François de La RochefoucauldComment
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Why are you guys bothering to have this discussion with Ludd? He thinks society=rape. It's not like this is a stretch."The French caused the war [Persian Gulf war, 1991]" - Ned
"you people who bash Bush have no appreciation for one of the great presidents in our history." - Ned
"I wish I had gay sex in the boy scouts" - DissidentComment
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