Lets talk diet and obesity.

[Cort Haus]

I think I'd rather die early than spend life worrying too much about what I'm eating. I'm also slightly uneasy about the near-religious fervour that is increasingly being attached to diet.

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by Lorizael
Out of mostly pure laziness, I eat chicken tenders and pizza almost every day for lunch. We'll see who dies first.

If I did that I would die before you, I bet. Also, if I drink coffee as much as most, I wuold probably be dead now.

JM

[Solver]

Most modern food isn't "natural", Blake. We've altered just about everything in some way or another, be it genetic modification, spraying or simply the modern methods of feeding animals / caring for plants. The human body is pretty damn adaptable, I guess it adapts just fine to the differences that transpire throughout history.

While vegetarians may have less problems with being overweight, I am struggling to imagine healthy eating without meat. I often prefer meat derivatives (sausage and the like) to pure meat, but I am yet to discover anything that fills you quite as meat does.

Hmm, okay, maybe being lightweight and thin isn't so bad really, as it means that I can eat whatever I want to.

[Aeson]

I don't worry too much about my diet. Stress can be a factor in weight gain as well.

I eat really well for months on end sometimes (when I'm down in S Cal), and really poor for months on end other times (when I'm in Utah)... doesn't seem to change things much. I always stay the same weight (within a few pounds of 160-165 since I stopped growing 16 years ago), and have the same amount of energy.

My diet, even when I'm eating healthy, is very high-carb. So I'm one of the lucky ones, at least weight-wise.

[Aeson]

Originally posted by Solver
While vegetarians may have less problems with being overweight, I am struggling to imagine healthy eating without meat. I often prefer meat derivatives (sausage and the like) to pure meat, but I am yet to discover anything that fills you quite as meat does.

Peanutbutter and heavy breads fill me up the fastest. Good excuse for jam too.

[Blake]

Originally posted by Asher
I know people who have quite a few extra pounds despite eating very healthy very religiously.

It probably works for some, not for all. The human body is complex, there's not one cause for weight gain. Thinking there is is naive.

That's why the thing to do is to look for the causes, plural .

Originally posted by Solver
Most modern food isn't "natural", Blake. We've altered just about everything in some way or another, be it genetic modification, spraying or simply the modern methods of feeding animals / caring for plants. The human body is pretty damn adaptable, I guess it adapts just fine to the differences that transpire throughout history.

I'm not talking about natural.
I'm talking about Whole.

There's a not so subtle distinction. Natural is an imaginary concept, it's totally subjective. A food can be natural and toxic as heck. It can be argued that there is nothing in this world which is unnatural, or you can draw a line at any arbitrary point you darn well please.
(There is nothing problematically unnatural about GMO (in terms of nutrients), ALTHOUGH the purpose of GMO is often to make it possible to spray the bejeezus out of the crops with herbicide, avoiding GMO may be wise for that reason)

Whole is simple. When you take a foodstuff, and strip out some edible parts leaving just the sugars or starch or protein or whatever, that food is no longer whole - it's had stuff which quite frankly we should be eating and which our bodies are evolved to digest and/or utilize, removed.

When there is a food which is toxic to eat in it's natural state, it must be heavily processed to remove/destroy the toxins - in that process, there is collateral damage, useful nutrients are destroyed. Food derived from toxic sources is innately not whole (making an exception for fermentation, which provides interesting new nutrients via organic processes - you're basically eating the bacteria/yeasts and their organic byproducts)

Whether or not harmful stuff is added to the food through high temperature or caustic processing (and most likely, it is), the fact remains that some of that stuff which we were have evolved to eat, is not getting eaten.

Uunnatural is a factor, as in chemical sprays. God, once when I was a kid I breathed in some herbicide or insecticide or something - not much mind you - (it was bound to happen being a farmboy) and for like a week everything seemed completely surreal (imagine life feeling like a dream) and it took me like a year for my mental state to recover fully. I say it's better to avoid that **** as much as possible if you want a functioning brain and body, but Wholeness may well be more important than "naturalness".

[Solly]

Being "perpetually thin" must indeed be horrible. Another word for it is hardgainer, they have an abysmal time of it in the gym trying to put on a lb or two of muscle. Those of us who have to fight the flab from time to time can bulk up if we want to, quite easily. I know which I'd prefer

[Mercator]

Originally posted by Spec
I just hating thinking about the fact that I will eventually have to take a pill everyday for the rest of my life...Omega 3's really work. Thats what we'll see in 3 months after I take my next blood test. :crossfingers:

Before you start doing that, try and read up a bit on cholesterol. I've seen some things in the news recently that suggested the cure is worse than the disease and cholesterol really isn't as bad as it's purported to be (e.g. The Cholesterol Myths)... Well, I haven't payed enough attention to it all to say if it's just a bunch of crackpots saying it, but still...

[Solly]

Nothing wrong with dietary cholesterol. There's a lot of nonsense out there about fats.

Low saturated fat intake and the resulting low testosterone is the predominant factor in declining sperm counts in the Western world.

[Riesstiu IV]

I'm fat cause I eat and I eat cause I'm fat. It's a vicious cycle.

[Darius871]

Originally posted by Solver
While vegetarians may have less problems with being overweight, I am struggling to imagine healthy eating without meat. I often prefer meat derivatives (sausage and the like) to pure meat, but I am yet to discover anything that fills you quite as meat does.

Grains and pulses complement each other for a combined amino acid profile equivalent to that of meat, so at least biochemically there's no advantage to meat, but it's still damn tasty.

[Provost Harrison]

Originally posted by Solly
Being "perpetually thin" must indeed be horrible. Another word for it is hardgainer, they have an abysmal time of it in the gym trying to put on a lb or two of muscle. Those of us who have to fight the flab from time to time can bulk up if we want to, quite easily. I know which I'd prefer

Yeah, I have to work hard to lose weight and activities such as running are not as easy for me as they for Dauphin who has a different built to myself. I have a lot more strength though. Horses for courses I suppose...

[Solly]

Horses for meat

[Blake]

Actually I became Vegan a few months ago (technically I became Vegetarian but almost immediately transitioned to Vegan, in part because I don't like eggs, honey or diary, except cheese - and cheese is a bad habit - although I'm actually just short of a "Red paint!" Vegan now ... living more compassionately becomes QUITE addictive).
I'm a Soy-hating Vegan FYI, meaning I eschew most stereotypical evil vegan foods and stick to the real ones - veges and nuts and stuff! (honestly I think that trying to replicate an omni diet as a vegan is borderline retarded or at least indicates a decision born from excessive emotion and insufficient reason, but each to their own)

I'm also putting on weight at the moment, for the first time in my life*. I don't mean it's something "Which is just happening", I decided I wanted to put on weight (both muscle and fat), and thus I am (there's not even any "trying to put on weight" about it - "trying" is for loosers, I just do). It's not the least bit difficult on a Vegan diet - what does make it easier is that I understand approximately one-trillion times as much about nutrition as I did before I became Vegan and knowledge is power.
(* Actually I did once before too but that was on an outward bound course)


Btw with "Protein Completeness", it's kind of overrated in importance... many many common plant foods are complete protein - like rice, potato, oats - they may be slightly DEFICIENT in some essential protein, but not critically so (ie if you eat the minimum amount required for calorie intake you might only get 70% of the deficient essential amino acid), it's really just a matter of eating enough. It may matter for someone who is trying to eat a minimal diet (a Vegan who "subsists on air"), but I think for most the more important thing is getting enuff minerals and vitamins; this isn't difficult with a sensible and tasty variety of veges, fruits, grains, beans/legumes, nuts/seeds and shrooms
(with a few exceptions which might require more deliberate focus, like Calcium, Selenium and Vitamin B12 - perhaps Iron for females).

It's interesting to note that regardless of the weight of Vegans, they seem to be healthier than the normal population. It appears that substituting more plant-based food for animal-based foods always improves health without negatives. Also substituting more whole food for processed food always improves health. The only exception being poorly balanced diets - and in all honesty, omni's are QUITE capable of managing to do that too, especially with regards to not getting eating enough greens. One theory behind the healthiness of Vegan diet, is that the person is FORCED to eat enough veges (and encouraged to pursue a diverse range of foods for the sake of variety), the addition of meat is probably not harmful it just encourages poor dietary practise - even (drunk!) mental midgets can make meat taste good while it requires actual skill to make equivalently tasty Vegan fare.

For me becoming Vegan has been totally worth it twice over just to learn about nutrition and cooking. I eat 10x better than I used to* (if this is typical experience for a Vegan it does of course cloud things when comparing Vegans with Omni's... but lets face it, the average Omni seems to be proud of their ignorance).

* And even before becoming Vegan I ate relatively well, meaning nearly no junk food and little processed food...

[Dauphin]

Originally posted by Provost Harrison


Yeah, I have to work hard to lose weight and activities such as running are not as easy for me as they for Dauphin who has a different built to myself. I have a lot more strength though. Horses for courses I suppose...

Running 5k in under half an hour is not difficult. I would think you could do it once you are down to a certain weight.