Democratic aggressors seek to strip Florida of its right to vote

[Ramo]

Making it as hard as possible for poor people to vote.

[Darius871]

Originally posted by Ramo
And you have to drive or ride the bus to wherever this place happens to be (unless you happen to have a computer, internet, and a printer and are able to use them) and wait in line - probably during hours that roughly coincide with your job or other responsibilities (taking care of kids, etc.).

No. Even if we assume neither X nor any friends nor any family have at least dialup access and a printer (which is rare even for the poor in 2007), computers and printers are readily available at any public library.

Out of curiosity I just now googled and found the request form for my state in precisely 4 seconds. Add to that a bus trip of twenty minutes each way (which is generous) and 10 minutes (which is generous) to fill out the form and envelope, and you're looking at just under an hour.

If X thinks a vote isn't worth a one-time commitment of ~50 minutes (which, again, is generous), then he obviously doesn't care much about voting. Why should I be any less apathetic about X's vote than he is about his own?

[Agathon]

Originally posted by Darius871


The point of contention here isn't whether we should "suppress the legitimate vote," but you're free to have fun with that straw man.

I'm only questioning whether this particular inconvenience is substantial enough to stop any reasonable person who seriously wants to vote from doing so.

It's a pain in the ass. I've voted loads of times, and I never had to do that crap.

I even had to get a special vote for my father when he was on his death bed, and he didn't have to supply ID.

[snoopy369]

Originally posted by Ramo
Making it as hard as possible for poor people to vote.

How about a serious answer to my question?

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by DinoDoc

Of course there is no voter fraud Nope none at all

I'd still like an answer to the question my post actually posed though.

Wow, 14 whole votes. Call me when Dumbocratic fraud comes close to the BS we saw in Florida in 2000.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Agathon
Honestly, do you people hate democracy or something?

Of course they do, they're conservatives. They've fought the extension of the franchise tooth and nail every step of the way, and are now trying to roll it back.

[chequita guevara]

It took me three months to get my birth certificate, and when I moved, I lost it. I had to wait another three months to get it again.

In the South, many counties are not online. You have to go in person to apply for documentation. Generally, there are long, long waits.

This is not a minor inconvenience. It is a barrier for many people. That it is easy for you, Darius, doesn't make it easy for everyone.

Public libraries are also not the most conveniently located places, and then you often have log waits to get to use the computer. On top of all that, you have to know before hand that your birth certificate is required. More likely, you'll show up to vote without realizing you have to prove you have a right to vote.

The purpose of this law is not to weed out vote fraud. Next to no vote fraud is being carried out by illegal aliens or people walking in pretending to be someone else. Almost all of it is either committed via absentee ballot, posting people to chase voters away with threats, or by bureaucratic BS like this, which renders many eligible voters unable to vote. This law doesn't fix vote fraud. It IS vote fraud!

[Ramo]

No. Even if we assume neither X nor any friends nor any family have at least dialup access and a printer (which is rare even for the poor in 2007), computers and printers are readily available at any public library.

Out of curiosity I just now googled and found the request form for my state in precisely 4 seconds. Add to that a bus trip of twenty minutes each way (which is generous) and 10 minutes (which is generous) to fill out the form and envelope, and you're looking at just under an hour.

If X thinks a vote isn't worth a one-time commitment of ~50 minutes (which, again, is generous), then he obviously doesn't care much about voting. Why should I be any less apathetic about X's vote than he is about his own?

If you really want to limit the franchise to people who have the free time and resources to deal with this sort of pointless ****, there's not much to discuss. This is obscene.

[Agathon]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara

Of course they do, they're conservatives. They've fought the extension of the franchise tooth and nail every step of the way, and are now trying to roll it back.

And yet you still believe in peaceful revolution!!

[Darius871]

Fine then, obviously deep deep down inside, everyone who professes desire to simply verify that a voter is also a citizen truly just doesn't want any more negroes and poor white trash polluting public policy. Obviously.

Ramo's Razor: All things being equal, the explanation involving the most nefarious intentions possible is certainly the best one.

[snoopy369]

As far as I'm concerned, the State (big S state) has a responsibility to ensure every voter is an eligible voter, and the person that they are claiming to be, with the highest reasonable degree of accuracy with the lowest inconvenience to the voter possible, while maintaining that accuracy.

I'm not sure why a state ID isn't enough - I suppose you could argue that a state ID is not proof of citizenship (as some noncitizens get them) but that's what the voter registration list is for, right? I suppose they could also argue that it could be easily faked, but then I'd suggest ensuring that your state ID is not easily faked

However, i'm not one to jump to conclusions, and would like to hear the reason the state in this case is requiring a second piece of identification. I don't claim to be aware of all of the concerns in this sort of situation, and I don't think anyone at this forum could claim that

[snoopy369]

Originally posted by Darius871
Fine then, obviously deep deep down inside, everyone who wants to simply verify that a voter is also a citizen truly just doesn't want any more negroes and poor white trash polluting public policy. Obviously.

Darius - that isn't fair. Making it more difficult to vote IS a problem, if it is unnecessary. I don't disagree with you that it's not a huge barrier to require a birth certificate - but it is a barrier, and if it is not necessary to prevent fraud I see no reason to require it.

If there is a valid reason that a state ID is not adequate proof of identity (and being on the voter registration lists proof of eligibility, like it is here in Chicago) then I'd like to know why.

[Ramo]

Ramo's Razor: All things being equal, the explanation involving the most nefarious intentions possible is certainly the best one.

What are you talking about? You just stated that you don't give a **** about the franchise of people who don't have the time or resources (see che's post) to jump through this idiotic hoop.

[Darius871]

Originally posted by Ramo
franchise of people who don't have the time or resources (see che's post)

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
In the South, many counties are not online. You have to go in person to apply for documentation. Generally, there are long, long waits.

I don't buy it. It's hard to believe that even in Podunk County, Alabama, I couldn't send a letter to the registrar saying the following:

To whom this may concern,

In order to comply with the new statute requiring that I verify citizenship prior to voting in the elections next fall, I will need a certified copy of my birth certificate. Please send the necessary application form in the enclosed self-addressed stamped envelope at your earliest convenience.

Many thanks,
Cletus Van Damme

If their SOP really is to respond "no, you have to drag your ass down here and wait several hours just to pick up the form by hand," I'll gladly kiss your rear end on main street at noon.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Wow, 14 whole votes. Call me when Dumbocratic fraud comes close to the BS we saw in Florida in 2000.

You want a racist machine dedicated to voter fraud then?

In the South, many counties are not online. You have to go in person to apply for documentation. Generally, there are long, long waits.

I don't really know where you live che but it didn't take nearly that long to get mine in MS.