UAW Strike - the last gasp?

[Seeker]

Unions need to internationalize if they want to have bargaining power.

Unfortunately it's pretty hard to propose joining a foreign multinational union in a place like china and, like, staying alive...

...not to mention that the manufacturing workers in 'off-shore' countries are hardly likely to be that sympathetic to preserving the 1970-80s era fat benefits of the American unionized worker when they are just barely kinda maybe clawing for their own non-Dickensian conditions.

Oh well, I guess that the good side of the 'race to the bottom' in wages for labour is that eventually the global economy will find that bottom, and 'equalize' wages for workers everywhere (based on skills of course) so that eventually there will be no country anywhere in the world that capital can escape to to enjoy the competitive advantage of non-existent regulation.

In about 50 years. But it will make Americans suffer so that's OK.

But after that, happy times for all!

[Wezil]

Originally posted by Seeker
Unions need to internationalize if they want to have bargaining power.

The problem is the loss of focus on local (or even national) issues. It's hard to get the international "Brotherhood" to give a damn, much less go on strike for a local grievance in Anytown, Anyplace.

This was why the CAW broke with the UAW years ago.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Seeker
Unions need to internationalize if they want to have bargaining power.

Unions need to die and go away, miserable anticompetitive organizations that they are.

Hopefully GM will go bankrupt and UAW will collapse

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker


Unions need to die and go away, miserable anticompetitive organizations that they are.

Just like businesses?

[Asher]

Originally posted by Kidicious
Just like businesses?

Businesses pay the bills. Unions make the bills bigger.

[Kuciwalker]

Do you see the absurdity in claiming that businesses are inherently anticompetitive?

[Asher]

It makes sense when you put on your Kid hat and view it from the perspective that the goal of all businesses is a complete monopoly so you can obtain maximum profit.

[Kuciwalker]

Unfair taxes

[SlowwHand]

Unions are ruining American manufacturing.
Here, Honda. Toyota. We don't mant to manufacture competively.

[Seeker]

I'm not sure what the situation is in Japan, but in Korea the unions, particularly Hyundae, Kia, etc are among the most powerful political forces in the country.

They work closely with their companies to pass open and 'stealth' protectionist measures. The structure of the advanced East Asian societies is neither free market nor socialist, it is what I would call 'corporatist' like pre-war fascist Italy.

So I'm not sure the 'weaker unions=more competitive' argument really works, I mean it depends on the international regulatory environment which 'elites' create.

Wezil: I know that from the perspective of an individual or family, job security is the most important issue, it's closest to home, so that's why the CAW fights the battles it does.

HOWEVER, from the perspective of the larger economy, fighting for 'job security' and making it more difficult for firms to fire employers is probably the absolute WORST thing unions can do. They should be trying to improve conditions and wages for overseas workers and thus remove that temptation to trade quality for cheapness rather than interfering in the market with more heavy handed mechanisms.

I also think that Canadian workers are in a better position than American when it comes to off-shoring. Japanese companies are opening plants in Canada despite the higher wages etc because of our skilled workers.

And whoever said 'unions should just die' well blah blah one day we'll all live in the libertarian utopia where Ron Paul wins and dkjfkdf, but for now we live in the real world where unions, and more importantly the factors that cause workers to want to unionize, aren't going away so fast.

[Kuciwalker]

And whoever said 'unions should just die' well blah blah one day we'll all live in the libertarian utopia where Ron Paul wins and dkjfkdf

... if you read that thread at all you'd notice that I think Ron Paul is a moron. It's not libertarianism at all - libertarians wouldn't care. It's basic economic sense. Unions are as bad for the economy as any other monopoly.

[Asher]

I also think that Canadian workers are in a better position than American when it comes to off-shoring. Japanese companies are opening plants in Canada despite the higher wages etc because of our skilled workers.

The GM plants in Canada are now victims of this strike due to parts shortages.

[Kontiki]

Originally posted by Seeker
I also think that Canadian workers are in a better position than American when it comes to off-shoring. Japanese companies are opening plants in Canada despite the higher wages etc because of our skilled workers.

But according to BK, every Canadian auto worker will only do 75% of the work their American counterpart.

[Zkribbler]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker
Do you see the absurdity in claiming that businesses are inherently anticompetitive?

You mean as in monopolies and cartels, such as we see in Microsoft's operating system, movie distribution, petroleum refining and to a lesser extent, in banking and supermarkets?

Unions need to die and go away, miserable anticompetitive organizations that they are.

Unions built the middle class. The middle class are consumers. And consumers built the America economy. Have you noticed that countries with unions are wealthy, while countries with few or no unions are poor?

Have you happened to notice that with the weakening of unions, the rich have gotten richer, while the middle class and lower classes have been struggling just to keep up? People are having to work more for a declining standard of living.

Seeker's right tho:

Unions need to internationalize if they want to have bargaining power. Unions need to internationalize if they want to have bargaining power.

It's unfair to expect U.S. manufacturers to compete with other manufacturers who expliot their workers. We need to raise EVERYONE'S boat.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Zkribbler
Unions built the middle class. The middle class are consumers. And consumers built the America economy.

First statement is incorrect. What follows is therefore irrelevant and unsupported.

Have you noticed that countries with unions are wealthy, while countries with few or no unions are poor?

Have you noticed that countries with white people are wealthy, while countries without whiter people are poor? Love that logic.

Have you happened to notice that with the weakening of unions, the rich have gotten richer, while the middle class and lower classes have been struggling just to keep up? People are having to work more for a declining standard of living.

The unions are killing themselves with overindulgence and outrageous demands. They are killing the companies that once employed them, which is making the middle class poorer as they're unemployed.

Isn't it fun to make unsupported claims?