UAW Strike - the last gasp?

[Aeson]

Originally posted by Asher
I think the only leverage GM has is the threat of the company going under (which the union clearly doesn't care about).

Well, thanks for adding something to the "leverage" side.

Though I'm sure the union cares about whether GM goes under or not. Their livelyhoods are at stake here. They may not realize how their actions would impact them, though even that I wouldn't be too sure about. Going into negotiations you generally always ask for more, then bargain towards a more reasonable settlement. Judging what each side thinks it can get based on initial offers/demands is foolhardy.

I'd add that GM has other divisions besides their US operations, and cash reserves (~$20billion), which they can rely upon to try to wait out the union. The union has it's own reserves as well. I wouldn't try to judge who can wait the longest, but they both have leverage in that area, and it is being exerted now.

I'd also say the upper management has a safety net, their own financial holdings outside GM, even if the whole thing goes under. On the other hand, for the most part union workers are seriously ****ed if that happens.

I wish they'd just fire the whole ****ing union and be done with it, though.

Unions can be beneficial or harmful, as can corporations, depending on how they are run. I'd agree that the UAW as constituted isn't a good thing. And add that GM as constituted needs restructuring as well.

Both sides could use some modernization in this case.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Aeson
Though I'm sure the union cares about whether GM goes under or not. Their livelyhoods are at stake here. They may not realize how their actions would impact them, though even that I wouldn't be too sure about.

GM is just going to be taken over. Some people will lose their jobs, not all.

[Wezil]

Isn't it cool having a thread where we can all agree that both parties are idiots?

[Aeson]

Originally posted by Kidicious
GM is just going to be taken over. Some people will lose their jobs, not all.

I fail to see what you feel this has to do with what I was saying? People losing jobs affects their livelyhood does it not? The UAW say they are concerned with job security. If GM goes under it's a pretty sure bet people lose jobs. How in the world do you spin that to support that the notion that UAW aren't concerned with GM's solvency?

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Aeson
I fail to see what you feel this has to do with what I was saying? People losing jobs affects their livelyhood does it not? The UAW say they are concerned with job security. If GM goes under it's a pretty sure bet people lose jobs. How in the world do you spin that to support that the notion that UAW aren't concerned with GM's solvency?

I agreed that some will lose their jobs. I think that's certain. Therefore a strike won't increase the risk of that.

edit: Everyone knows GM is going down, to answer your question.

[DanS]

I'd also say the upper management has a safety net, their own financial holdings outside GM, even if the whole thing goes under. On the other hand, for the most part union workers are seriously ****ed if that happens.

All UAW workers at the big three are being paid quite handsomely in their own right. I have no more sympathy for them than I do for the golden parachuters.

[Apocalypse]

GM has more leverage than what you have been saying. For one, they really do not need all the workers they have on the books. The union wants them to keep plants open that don't even make them money. Furthermore, GM is one of the worst car companies in terms of robotics and other modernization that cuts the amount of workers needed. They could have gone this way far earlier and wouldn't be in as much financial problems, but previous negotiations kept them from using more robotics.

If you really want to argue for unions though, just look at Saturn. It was a GM company that was was on the up and looked like it could compete with Honda and Toyota, but Unions did not like how they ran their plants (which was pretty much a copy of Asian plants) because of fear it would spread to other GM car companies.

Also, GM just hired one of the top guys from Toyota, apparently to help get them in better competition with the Asian companies. I don't think they want to work with the unions anymore.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Apocalypse
I don't think they want to work with the unions anymore.

Gee ya think?

Yea, the same thing that happened to Chrysler is going to happen to GM and Ford. Eventually they are all going to be taken over, cut clean and resold. UAW don't going to be anything like it is now.

[Apocalypse]

No, I mean they are actually going to do something about it. It is the UAW which really brings nothing to the table.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Apocalypse
No, I mean they are actually going to do something about it. It is the UAW which really brings nothing to the table.

What do you think they are going to do?

[Zkribbler]

Originally posted by Apocalypse
No, I mean they are actually going to do something about it. It is the UAW which really brings nothing to the table.

So, exactly how many people are working on GM's assembly line right now? Isn't it somewhere around 0?

[Apocalypse]

Eliminate jobs.

[Apocalypse]

Originally posted by Zkribbler


So, exactly how many people are working on GM's assembly line right now? Isn't it somewhere around 0?

According to news interviews, it seems like they have some still.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Apocalypse
Eliminate jobs.

At first you said, "I don't think they want to work with the union anymore"

How are they going to do that?

[Apocalypse]

Breaking it to the point of becoming ineffective.