UAW Strike - the last gasp?

[Japher]

It's unfair to expect U.S. manufacturers to compete with other manufacturers who expliot their workers.

"unfair"? You sound like a little kid with that. The Auto industry is being destroyed by unions. They are being destroyed, fair and square by foreign competition. The only thing unfair about the whole deal is that the boat is going to sink because there are too many rats on it, and no one wants to get off.

I don't hear ppl around here bad mouthing Honda, I hear them begging for Honda jobs and exclaiming how great it is to work there.

Unions should work to help the companies they work for become more competitive. I think the UAW has, to this point, tried, but only so much as to save their own butts. It is obvious that, in this case, the union has out lived it's usefulness.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Japher
"unfair"? You sound like a little kid with that. The Auto industry is being destroyed by unions. They are being destroyed, fair and square by foreign competition. The only thing unfair about the whole deal is that the boat is going to sink because there are too many rats on it, and no one wants to get off.

I don't hear ppl around here bad mouthing Honda, I hear them begging for Honda jobs and exclaiming how great it is to work there.

Unions should work to help the companies they work for become more competitive. I think the UAW has, to this point, tried, but only so much as to save their own butts. It is obvious that, in this case, the union has out lived it's usefulness.

Yep.

Toyota has a big plant near here and I know a bunch of people who have worked there, they only have nice things to say about it and the compensation. The unions for other manufacturers are pulling the companies down with them, and they don't even realize it.

[Arrian]

Not to mention that what a union leader does in negotiations is not necessarily the right thing for membership, even if the leader means well.

Further, I think that the head of a union cares about as much for his membership as a CEO does for his employees. That is to say very little.

-Arrian

[Aeson]

I think in this case GM is in trouble more for management decisions than the Unions. It wasn't the Unions who decided to pass on hybrid options for too long, to keep with the "bigger is better" approach. It wasn't the Unions that decided to invest into the electric car and then kill it with inane leases and virtually zero marketing (even some negative marketing).

GM management screws up by failing to keep up with their competitors in directional choices, and the Union workers are left holding the bag. The people responsible for the choices that have lead tot he problem will make out like bandits. I feel sorry for the union workers (if not the Union management) because they're damned if they do, damned if they dont, because of other peoples' mistakes.

[Asher]

The management of GM is stupid, no doubt about it. But so are the unions.

The union of the two is most glorious.

GM makes crappy big decisions about the trending of the marketplace, the Union makes crappy defect-ridden cars and demands insane amounts of compensation to tie the hands of the management.

Demanding they ramp up production when demand is falling is just brilliant. That's not going to cause the company problems at all.

[Aeson]

Toyota actually pays it's US assembly line workers higher hourly wage on average. It's the healthcare/retirement costs which screw GM. (100k workers on the payroll, 500k on benefits...) Maybe they were hoping we'd go with universal health care by now?

It's still a management issue. Though you throw union management in there too. I blame GM management more though, because they have a hand in the decisions on union compensation, as well as the decisions on the basic direction their business takes.

[Japher]

they have a hand in the decisions on union compensation

yeah, their decision; should I let the union strong arm me or should I just not make any cars at all?

[Aeson]

Originally posted by Japher
yeah, their decision; should I let the union strong arm me or should I just not make any cars at all?

Both sides have leverage. To pretend otherwise is ridiculous.

[Japher]

What's GM's leverage?

[Aeson]

Do you honestly think that UAW just gets whatever it wants because GM has to give them whatever they want?

[Asher]

Answer his question please.

[Aeson]

I want to let him dig deeper first Asher.

You can answer my question too in the meantime if you're bored though. Do you think UAW gets whatever they want because GM has no leverage?

[Asher]

I think the only leverage GM has is the threat of the company going under (which the union clearly doesn't care about).

I wish they'd just fire the whole ****ing union and be done with it, though.

[Japher]

Why can't GM just say "to hell with you lot, the union can kiss our arse. We will hire 60% of all union members back at a 20% pay increase, and you won't have union dues on that."?

Makes no sense.

I am for unions in industries where it is needed. IMO, steel is such an industry. However, autoworkers are now little more than robot operators, button and broom pushers, and at most will tighten a lug nut that might get missed by a robot.

US auto companies need more freedom with their work force, not to abuse them, but to effectively use them in an efficient manner. Having a 3 month meeting everytime you need to have lay offs is rediculous.

[Arrian]

Aeson's not wrong that GM management is as much to blame, if not more to blame, for the situation. And they will largely make out like bandits.

So yeah, I feel for the union membership.

That doesn't change the fact that the union is pissing into the wind.

-Arrian