UAW Strike - the last gasp?

[Wezil]

Originally posted by Aeson
IRS?

No, no, much worse. Asher

[Aeson]

Oh. I like Asher. (I can just keep arguing with Asher until he goes away. That doesn't work with the IRS.)

[Kidlicious]

Re: UAW Strike - the last gasp?

Originally posted by Arrian
Isn't pretty much everyone involved in this mess screwed?

Well, some are screwed more than others. One thing is for sure, GM will be taken over. That leaves the question of who will get all the cash. The workers want it. That's what I think the strike is about.

[DanS]

IMO, this is a predictable circumstance created by labor not caring whether the owners made any money. For a little less than a century, the whole industry has catered almost exclusively to labor's myopic demands, thereby destroying vast amounts of little old ladies' savings.

Two telling ratios are the (1) the market value of Google versus the market value of GM: 8.5 to 1; meanwhile the context is that (2) GM is a vastly larger business than Google: 21 to 1. All told, that's a discrepancy of 2 and a half orders of magnitude.

I have family in the industry, but I can't help but be happy that this abomination is coming to a close quickly. I wish them all to go bankrupt -- can't happen soon enough.

From a personal angle, I have never had any job security, so can't relate to the UAW's position at all. Maybe I'm a little resentful that the UAW views job security as a right guaranteed by society.

[snoopy369]

Originally posted by Aeson
Oh. I like Asher. (I can just keep arguing with Asher until he goes away. That doesn't work with the IRS.)

Please tell me how

I've seen this with companies (not IRS but similar idea) where you get reimbursed for business travel $0.45 or $0.50 per mile, and with a good gas mileage car (say a Civic or something) you can make quite a decent buck on it

[Zkribbler]

[QUOTE] Originally posted by DanS
IMO, this is a predictable circumstance created by labor not caring whether the owners made any money.
[quote]

I thought that was management's job.

From a personal angle, I have never had any job security, so can't relate to the UAW's position at all. Maybe I'm a little resentful that the UAW views job security as a right guaranteed by society.

No one has spelled out what "job security" means in this negotiations. My best guess is that the union is saying, "Okay, we take over your unfunded $50 billion in benefits, but in return you have to promise not to outsource our jobs to a non-union shop. If we're going to pay off your $50 billion debt, we can't be put in a situation where you can unilaterally pull the financial rug out from under us."

[Asher]

My understanding is more simple: The union wants to guarantee no more layoffs, GM says they can't, Union throws a tantrum and strikes.

I thought that was management's job.

Cool. They can just do that? I bet they'd love to make a whole lot of cuts to its workforce and benefits to bring them in line with competitors who are taking their marketshare with leaner operations.

[Zkribbler]

Originally posted by Asher
My understanding is more simple: The union wants to guarantee no more layoffs, GM says they can't, Union throws a tantrum and strikes.

You could be right. As I said above, I don't know how the issue of "job security" manifests here.

Normally, it wouldn't be reasonable for a union to demand "no more layoffs." A company needs to be run in an efficient manner. (One of the many factors that did in our railroad companies was union insistence that the companies hire firemen for diesels, even though only coal-burning locomotives needed firemen to shovel the coal.)

However here, the union is taking on billions of dollars of management's debt. They deserve something in return.

I thought that was management's job.

Cool. They can just do that?

Absolutely. managment has a fiduciary duty to "car[e] whether the owners made any money."

[Wezil]

Originally posted by snoopy369
I've seen this with companies (not IRS but similar idea) where you get reimbursed for business travel $0.45 or $0.50 per mile, and with a good gas mileage car (say a Civic or something) you can make quite a decent buck on it

Yep.

I get 35 cents per km. The cheaper I do that kilometre the more money in my pocket.

Governent employees got 48 cents last I heard.

[Zkribbler]

Here's how the Detroit Free Press describes the issue:

JOB SECURITY: UAW membership has fallen from a high of 1.5 million active members in 1979 to about 576,000 today, and the union already has agreed to massive buyout plans and changes to retiree health care to help the automakers. The union wants GM to promise future production and investment at U.S. plants, which is difficult for GM because the automaker's U.S. market share is in decline.

I wonder what "future production" means. If they mean, "Thou shalt produce X amount of cars and trucks," such a demand isn't reasonable. With market share reducing and a possible recession looming, production may decrease. If they mean, "Thou shalt produce X% of your cars and trucks at U.S. unionized plants, then that's okay.

The demand for "investment" sounds like a demand for modernization, which would be good for all.

[Wezil]

CAW has about 250,000

[Zkribbler]

From the U.A.W. website

GM workers strike on job security, economic issues

UAW workers went on strike against General Motors over job security, economic issues, benefits for active workers and winning investment in future products, UAW President Ron Gettelfinger said Monday at a news conference at Solidarity House.

“We stand ready 24 hours a day, seven days a week to go back to the bargaining table,” Gettelfinger, flanked by the UAW GM National Negotiating Committee.

Pickets will remain outside plants until a contract is reached, he said before heading back to the bargaining table with UAW Vice President Cal Rapson, who directs the union’s GM Department, and the national committee.

Gettelfinger said it was significant that our union gave GM a nine-day contract extension, the longest in UAW history to avoid a strike, a drastic step no one on the union side wanted.

“We were pushed into a strike and that’s where we are at,” he added.

In recent years, UAW members have done their part by working with the company on issues such as the corporate restructuring, the attrition plan, the Delphi bankruptcy, the 2005 health care agreement and numerous quality, productivity and health and safety issues. Workers gave up a 3 percent general wage increase in 2006 and cost of living allowances.

“We’ve met and solved all of GM’s problems since 2003,” he added. We’ve worked with General Motors on every issue that came before them.”

“We’ve done a lot of things to help that company,” Gettelfinger said. “There comes a point in time when you have to draw the line in the sand.”

The UAW leader added that the strike had nothing to do with the much-discussed Voluntary Employee Benefit Association (VEBA) for retirees, which is a permissible but not mandatory subject of bargaining. Job security, economics and benefits for active members remain critical issues for UAW members at GM.

“It’s become apparent to us that as much as workers give, they cannot give enough,” Gettelfinger said. “As much as executives get, they cannot get enough.”

[Zkribbler]

From the GM website:

GM statement regarding UAW work stoppage


We are disappointed in the UAW's decision to call a national strike.

The bargaining involves complex, difficult issues that affect the job security of our U.S. work force and the long-term viability of the company. We are fully committed to working with the UAW to develop solutions together to address the competitive challenges facing General Motors.

We will continue focusing our efforts on reaching an agreement as soon as possible.

Visit GM's Manufacturing and Labor Resource web site: www.gmmanufacturing.info

[Wezil]

So how long will it take the strikers to go from



to



?

[DanS]

Originally posted by Zkribbler
(One of the many factors that did in our railroad companies was union insistence that the companies hire firemen for diesels, even though only coal-burning locomotives needed firemen to shovel the coal.)

As an aside, I note that Burlington Northern Santa Fe and Union Pacific are each worth well more than GM. For all intents and purposes, GM is worthless.