Iran leader denied WTC wreath request

[Aeson]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
That would have no impact. Look at what happened at Columbia, where he was allowed to speak and folks like aggie are already attacking Bollinger.

Are you implying that Ahmadinejad is an evil genious that can make his points and we have no possible way to counter that except to undermine our own ideals of freedom of speech?

Because all I'm talking about here is that we gained nothing by not allowing him to lay the wreath, while he gained something by being denied, and wasn't really even denied anything of value because he was able to "pay his respects" simply by offering to do so and in response to the denial as well. I don't think we had to give him the upper hand.

[DinoDoc]

Are you implying that there weren't legitimate reasons by the NYPD (on going construction and security concerns) to deny the request?

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Aeson


Are you implying that Ahmadinejad is an evil genious that can make his points and we have no possible way to counter that except to undermine our own ideals of freedom of speech?

Because all I'm talking about here is that we gained nothing by not allowing him to lay the wreath, while he gained something by being denied, and wasn't really even denied anything of value because he was able to "pay his respects" simply by offering to do so and in response to the denial as well. I don't think we had to give him the upper hand.

how was he denied free speech? He got to speak at Columbia.

When is Shimon Peres going to get to speak Teheran University?

Hes not an evil genius, but he will manipulate any photo-op hes given, and the chorus of sympathetic voices will assist him.

[lord of the mark]

There ARE gays Iran

http://www.nysun.com/article/63294

[Shrapnel12]

Originally posted by Aeson


Because all I'm talking about here is that we gained nothing by not allowing him to lay the wreath, while he gained something by being denied, and wasn't really even denied anything of value because he was able to "pay his respects" simply by offering to do so and in response to the denial as well. I don't think we had to give him the upper hand.

I believe we did. I believe we gained the appreciation and respect of many a WTC survivor (not all but many). How about doing something for compassion's sake regardless of how it affects us in the political world? We also retained our dignity while sticking by our fellow Americans. Perhaps that's something the rest of the world can't understand?

[Aeson]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
how was he denied free speech? He got to speak at Columbia.

That's the point I made. The wreath was nothing more than an expression on his part. An expression he was going to make anyways. Makes us look silly and ineffectively obtuse.

When is Shimon Peres going to get to speak Teheran University?

You're just grasping at irrelevent straws here. If I start defending Iran's take on freedom of speech, then you could bring up such an argument.

Hes not an evil genius, but he will manipulate any photo-op hes given, and the chorus of sympathetic voices will assist him.

We can manipulate situations as well. I think we had the upper hand in this case.

[Wezil]

Originally posted by lord of the mark


That would have no impact. Look at what happened at Columbia, where he was allowed to speak and folks like aggie are already attacking Bollinger.

It is terribly rude to invite someone and then insult them when they arrive. I heard the audio and it was rude.

[DinoDoc]

What's with all the complaining about his reception? He got a much better reception than the Minute Men got at Columbia.

[Wezil]

I just think it is rude. May just be me.

I have no love for what Mr Denier stands for or even has to say but I think the proper time for the "tough" questions and impolite words might have been sometime after the introduction.

Harold Ballard (former owner of the Leafs) invited the Soviet Junior hockey team to Toronto once and then plastered the scoreboard with rude messages about their country. Not very classy.

I gained no respect listening to Bollinger speak.

[Aeson]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
Are you implying that there weren't legitimate reasons by the NYPD (on going construction and security concerns) to deny the request?

I would say those are convenient excuses. Since we used them, it would have been best if we had just stuck to them. The statements to further explain that we wouldn't have allowed it anyways are rather blatantly confrontational.

I find it hard to believe that we couldn't have figured something out to allow it to happen if we weren't opposed to it happening. The request wasn't even specifically to enter the site, just to visit it. According to the OP's story, "It wasn't clear whether Ahmadinejad wanted to descend to the base of the trade center site, where the twin towers once stood, or lay a wreath on a public sidewalk outside the site."

[SlowwHand]

Originally posted by Wezil


It is terribly rude to invite someone and then insult them when they arrive. I heard the audio and it was rude.

I don't know, but I don't think it was expected that he would ramble on about, "Who really did 9-11?" and "The holocaust is a fake" BUT "The Jews must be eradicated".
That was rude. As Forrest Gump might say, rude is as rude does.
I really don't want him at the site now. There's no way he'd be going to pay respects to the dead.

[Wezil]

Originally posted by SlowwHand



I don't know, but I don't think it was expected that he would ramble on about, "Who really did 9-11?" and "The holocaust is a fake" BUT "The Jews must be eradicated".

Really? I think they were counting on it actually.

That was rude. As Forrest Gump might say, rude is as rude does.

Sure, he said things that are insensitive, stupid, wrong, and most likely rude. He was the one invited though. If I invite OJ into my living room I deserve what I get. But to invite him then insult him would be rude on my part. There is a difference.

I really don't want him at the site now. There's no way he'd be going to pay respects to the dead.

I doubt there was ever any chance of it happening from the beginning. As was pointed out earlier, Mr Denier scored a win/win b/c he knew exactly how the US public would react. On this score he was most certainly smart.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by SlowwHand
I don't know, but I don't think it was expected that he would ramble on about, "Who really did 9-11?" and "The holocaust is a fake" BUT "The Jews must be eradicated".

But I don't think he said any of those things. His statements were far more muted that the soundbites of him before.. makes me believe a lot of that is for public consumption for hardliners.

[Agathon]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
What's with all the complaining about his reception? He got a much better reception than the Minute Men got at Columbia.

If they were invited to speak, then it was just as wrong. You don't do that in the academy. It's against everything we're supposed to stand for.

During question time, it was right and proper to ask hard questions (and Ahdinnerjacket is a professor himself, so he knows the score), but it's not right to introduce a speaker with an insulting and partisan harangue.

[Agathon]

Originally posted by Arrian

Americans will always look like jerks to you. No matter what we do. It's more about you than us.

No it really has to do with world opinion. You see, when the vast majority of the world's population has a bad opinion of you guys, there's a very high probability that it's because you're *******s.

Your country voted enough to put Bush in twice. That makes you on the balance of things, absolute ****ing idiots. There's no escape from that fact. You voted for the *****.

Sometimes we are jerks.

Most of the time.

I didn't see/hear the Columbia president's questions, so I can't say for sure. The only thing I do know for sure is that it doesn't really matter in your eyes. Holocaust denier boy was going to "win" in your eyes regardless.

Not true. I just knew that some idiots (in this case Bollinger and the US media) would go overboard due to their fear of the Zionist mafia and end up making Ahmadinejad look reasonable. He's not, but in no way is he as unreasonable as the various American Goebbels would have us think, so he's going to win every time by coming out as the more reasonable man.

Your journalists are morons.