Iran leader denied WTC wreath request

[Aeson]

I find it a bit weird that we don't allow him a very simple expression such as laying a wreath, but allow him to speak far more in-depth at one of our universities.

(Debate )

[Agathon]

Originally posted by Wiglaf
I find it amazing you criticize Western leaders for praising Pinochet but defend a man who has called for the eradication of Israel.

The political eradication of Israel. I happen to agree with him on that. I think Israel is one of the worst ideas in the history of international diplomacy, and that it's a racist, rogue, apartheid state supported by (but obviously not solely by) racist Jewish bigots.

Of course saying anything mean about Israel in the US will get the Zionist mafia on your back, so people don't freely discuss it in the public arena there (like those guys who had to get the Poms to publish their paper on the Israel lobby). Elsewhere we're happy to speak freely.

[Arrian]

I thought one of the complaints was that the conference wouldn't allow real historians to participate or somesuch, not "you shouldn't have a conference."

It was blatantly set up as a denial conference. This was pointed out, and then certain types attempted to draw equivalence with the reaction to cartoons. As if pointing out that a bunch of holocaust deniers having a circle jerk is the same thing as rioting and threatening to kill people. Yup.

-Arrian

[Agathon]

Originally posted by Aeson
I find it a bit weird that we don't allow him a very simple expression such as laying a wreath, but allow him to speak far more in-depth at one of our universities.

(Debate )

Yeah, he was pissed about that. He said that he wanted to pay his respects.

Don't know if he was sincere.

[Arrian]

He's actually most likely quite pleased they didn't let him do it. Now he gets to cry about it.

-Arrian

[Agathon]

Originally posted by Arrian
I thought one of the complaints was that the conference wouldn't allow real historians to participate or somesuch, not "you shouldn't have a conference."

It was blatantly set up as a denial conference. This was pointed out, and then certain types attempted to draw equivalence with the reaction to cartoons. As if pointing out that a bunch of holocaust deniers having a circle jerk is the same thing as rioting and threatening to kill people. Yup.

-Arrian

It is actually. It's just that westerners are too self absorbed to notice it. Depicting Mohammed is one of the most offensive things you can do in Islam. Depicting him with a bomb for a hat is even worse. Similarly, denying the holocaust is probably the most offensive thing you can do in Western societies (since people don't care about religions so much). I thought the cartoons were awful, but that once they were out, they should be discussed in the proper forum.

Presumably, the point was to be as offensive as possible, and our side was too ****ing dumb to notice again, because we were being too sanctimonious about freedom of speech. People like Iranians tend to notice our hypocrisy, even if we don't.

[Agathon]

Originally posted by Arrian
He's actually most likely quite pleased they didn't let him do it. Now he gets to cry about it.

-Arrian

Perhaps, but Americans look like jerks again. Is that your national sport or something? You all seem intent to outdo each other at it, and the Columbia president made a massive dick of himself today as well.

[Aeson]

His statement that he wanted to pay his respects is essentially the same thing as laying the wreath. (Which may or may not have been a sincere gesture itself.)

We come off as petty, and his expression goes through anyways. I don't get what we were trying to accomplish except to be obtuse.

[Arrian]

Originally posted by Agathon


It is actually. It's just that westerners are too self absorbed to notice it. Depicting Mohammed is one of the most offensive things you can do in Islam. Depicting him with a bomb for a hat is even worse. Similarly, denying the holocaust is probably the most offensive thing you can do in Western societies (since people don't care about religions so much). I thought the cartoons were awful, but that once they were out, they should be discussed in the proper forum.

Presumably, the point was to be as offensive as possible, and our side was too ****ing dumb to notice again, because we were being too sanctimonious about freedom of speech. People like Iranians tend to notice our hypocrisy, even if we don't.

You missed my point. I'm not talking about the similarity between the two trolls (cartoons, denial). I'm talking about the false equivalence of the REACTION to the trolls.

-Arrian

[Arrian]

Originally posted by Agathon


Perhaps, but Americans look like jerks again. Is that your national sport or something? You all seem intent to outdo each other at it, and the Columbia president made a massive dick of himself today as well.

Americans will always look like jerks to you. No matter what we do. It's more about you than us.

Sometimes we are jerks. I didn't see/hear the Columbia president's questions, so I can't say for sure. The only thing I do know for sure is that it doesn't really matter in your eyes. Holocaust denier boy was going to "win" in your eyes regardless.

-Arrian

[Arrian]

Originally posted by Aeson
His statement that he wanted to pay his respects is essentially the same thing as laying the wreath. (Which may or may not have been a sincere gesture itself.)

We come off as petty, and his expression goes through anyways. I don't get what we were trying to accomplish except to be obtuse.

It was a no-lose thing for him. Quite smart.

-Arrian

[Wiglaf]

Originally posted by Agathon


The political eradication of Israel. I happen to agree with him on that. I think Israel is one of the worst ideas in the history of international diplomacy, and that it's a racist, rogue, apartheid state supported by (but obviously not solely by) racist Jewish bigots.

Of course saying anything mean about Israel in the US will get the Zionist mafia on your back, so people don't freely discuss it in the public arena there (like those guys who had to get the Poms to publish their paper on the Israel lobby). Elsewhere we're happy to speak freely.

Political eradication of a country? Nice way of putting it. Here we have one of the most brutal dictators alive and you are defending all of his provocative statements. That to me is just as sick as Western leaders praising Pinochet.

Check this out, from CNN:

"Asked about widely documented government abuse of women and homosexuals in his country, Ahmadinejad said, "We don't have homosexuals" in Iran. "I don't know who told you we had it," he said."

[Arrian]

One of the most brutal dictators alive?

Sigh. Wiggy, please "check your facts."

-Arrian

[Wiglaf]

Yep. Canada recently listed Iran as the 13th worst offender in human rights.

Wikipedia it? Cannot help if you are lazy or ignorant.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Iran

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Agathon
A long and oblique speech ...

I didn't actually care about what Straightjacket said and I'm sorry if I gave that impression. You got me curious about what the uni president said.