Student Tasering at Kerry Q&A

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Cort Haus
5-6 cops should have been able to deal with him without the taser, but the student sounded like an attention-seeking drama queen who happily escalated the situation so he could thcweam and thcweam.

It was like the scene out of 'Holy Grail'.

"Help, help, I'm being repressed! Come and see the violence inherent in the system!!"

Not exactly. That was just a movie. This really happened and the guy really got totured, so not so funny.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by BeBro
Oh, and just curious - does every uni have "Campus Police" in the US?

University of Chicago in the '80s was said to have had the largest private police force in the midwest, though in retrospect that sounds like a stretch

[Patroklos]

Did you read Kid's post Donegeal? It was teh T O R T U R 3 !!!

Eval Piggies

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Donegeal
In a way, Pekka is right.

The jod of the police is to get the subject restrained as quickly as possible and hopefully not injure the guy. If the taser had not been used, the officers still would have gotten the guy in cuffs, but they'd had to pull his arms against his muscles. Not sure if any of you work out but it is very easy to pull a muscle (or in this case break an arm or have the shoulder pop out). Now lets compare the risks:

Taser: 5 seconds of pain to gain compliance to restrain the subject. Risk of injury is virtually none.

Non-compliant physically forced into hand cuffs: Most likely more than 5 seconds to accomplish goal. Risk of injury to subjec and officers is far greater with a non-compliant subject. Additionally, property could get damaged in the struggle.

The choice is pretty obvious.

It seems that not all police agree with you.

Holcomb said there would be an investigation into whether the officers used force appropriately, adding that employing a Taser gun would only be justified in a case where there was a threat of physical harm to officers.

http://www.gainesvillesun.com/articl...0325/1007/NEWS

[Cort Haus]

Originally posted by Kidicious
Not exactly. That was just a movie. This really happened and the guy really got totured, so not so funny.

I already said they shouldn't have used the taser. I was referring to the bit before that where he was screaming "help, help, I'm being arrested".

He could have gone quietly and then persued action for wrongful arrest, but chose instead to escalate. He's a hysterical attention-seeker, who paid a heavy price.

[Donegeal]

Yes, 5-6 cops can get the job done, but why risk injury?

When cops restrain someone in this fashion, they are trained to do it so there is on officer holding onto each limb (2 arms, 2 legs is four of the officers) and one stablizes the head. Now with a struggling/resistive subject like we have in this example (notice how but 1 second before he gets tased he has one hand unsecured and on a seat of some type and his head is up) the officers were still attempting to get control of the subject. They had to get him onto his front with his arms behind his back while he was resisting. He was warned to comply with orders or he was going to get tased. He didn't comply. He got tased. Once tased, he complied with orders and was successfully and properly restrained without any injuries to him self or the officers.

Now are you saying that there 5-6 cops shouldn't have tried to restrain him? What are they susposed to do? Stand by while two officers try to take him down, increasing the chance that all get hurt or attempt to get the subject restrained?

[Donegeal]

Of course there is going to be an investigation Kid! There is ALWAYS an investigation when a taser is used! (at least thats the policy in my department)

[Patroklos]

It seems that not all police agree with you.

When frantic communist exaggerators go screaming in the streets, investigations are done to throw them a bone and give them a warm fuzzy.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Donegeal
Of course there is going to be an investigation Kid! There is ALWAYS an investigation when a taser is used! (at least thats the policy in my department)

did you read the whole quote?

[Donegeal]

Originally posted by Kidicious


did you read the whole quote?

Yes. If you want to attempt to place meaning into someone quoting part of a policy when no other staement was made, you go right ahead and make your assumtions. Me, I'm just taking it for what was said.

[Pekka]

I think the main reason taser is needed in cases like these is because they let anyoen be a cop these days. These fat middle aged bozos ruin the good name of real deal cops. I'm talking about the ones who will wrestle you down in few seconds and arrest you even if you do resist, and it's 1-on-1. If it's 2 cops and 1 person, that one person doesn't even hold a chance.

Then again, cops in here for example are usually always athletic, taller than you and definitely able to kick your freaking ass if it's needed. It's kind of funny, they have to keep themselves fit, it's part of their duty, like firemen. No rent-a-cops, just real cops. Badass cops. The bonus is also that when they arrest you or if you have any questions, they won't actually fight you first. They make sure you understand what's up, and then if you still fight, well you're going to get submitted. Seems to me these fat security guards are more into submission first, explain later.

Of course it's dangerous to explain later. To make sense or to let the other one contest the decision, what's that? That's BS, you need to show force so they don't get any ideas about being able to manipulate the force. next thing you see is them quoting their rights! Can't have that .

do I think he needed to be tased? No. Arrested? Perhaps, after he started resisting the arrest. Arrested IN THE FIRST place? Absolutely no.

So what's the problem? I see a different problem. I see a problem when you get people who are supposed to use force on behalf of the state, I see a problem when too many bozos get that job. Iv've seen many tasering videos on youtube, most of them are just fine. That's because they use it on people who are actually being really difficult and a danger. Not just having a different opinion, kind of loud and twisting.

I saw a video of a cop handling this kid on PCP, the cop had a cowboy hat on and he was alone against the PCP kid who was raging. The cop just wrestled him over and over again, didn't evne pull his gun out. Slammed him against the hood few times and just restrained the raging maniac and was cool under fire at all times. AND he looked like Lieutenant Colonel Bill Kilgore!!! That cop was amazing.

But these campus cops? Why are they even hired? They can't keep up with anyone if they start running, they prolly don't know all the rules very well since most of them aren't that sharp, the only thing they do know is STOP and if you don't, I NEED TO TASE YOU OIT'S THE LAW½!

Cops These lazy losers?

They should show some respect for their own damn profession and at least keep fit. What's wrong with them, I see them being an insult to the profession of police officer anyway.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Donegeal


Yes. If you want to attempt to place meaning into someone quoting part of a policy when no other staement was made, you go right ahead and make your assumtions. Me, I'm just taking it for what was said.

He said that a taser can not be used to avoid injury to the subject.

Now if you want to go on believing that they used the taser to avoid injury to themselves you go right ahead, but if that were true they would have used the taser sooner than they did, like before they were all on top of him, and before he had one cuff on.

[Kidlicious]

Oh, and I find the claim that a taser is to be used so that someone will not pull a muscle also incredible.

[Pekka]

I also thought tasers are used when someone is being dangerous. Not loud and twisting.

Like I said, real deal cops would just arrest him regardless. They wouldn't need to use taser. Just like they did before and still do in many countries. Haven't heard of a phenomenon of broken arms or pulled muscles either, even though it must happen every now and then.

[Shrapnel12]

This article may shed some light on the subject:

Take it from Andrew Meyer, the University of Florida student hit with the Taser shot heard around the world via YouTube: Did the cops do anything wrong?
“I am not mad at you guys,” the police report [pdf] quoted him as saying in the ride to jail. “You didn’t do anything wrong, you were just trying to do your job.”
Does that mean that Mr. Meyer felt that he was simply doing his job as well? Friends of his told The Gainesville Sun that despite his reputation as a prankster and his apparent flair for self-promotion, exhibited on his personal Web site, TheAndrewMeyer.com, the dramatic exit from Senator John Kerry’s appearance on campus “was not any sort of publicity stunt.”
But one of the officers said that “his demeanor completely changed once the cameras were not in sight,” shifting in a matter of minutes from the kicking-and-screaming coiner of the new catchphrase “Don’t Tase me, bro” to “laughing and being lighthearted.” Then, they say, he asked them whether the news media would be on hand when he arrived at the police station.
Moreover, one of the widely circulated videos of the incident was filmed with his own camera. As he pushed his way toward the microphone to put his questions to Senator Kerry, he handed his camera to Clarissa Jessup, a student he didn’t know, and asked her to record him.
Then, just as his diatribe was heating up, he turned to Ms. Jessup and said, “Are you taping this? Do you have this? You ready?,” according to the police report.
Mr. Meyer has been released from police custody and has yet to be formally charged with either resisting arrest or disturbing the peace. Two officers involved in the incident have been placed on leave pending an investigation of their conduct in the incident.
While the state attorney’s office tries to make up its mind what to do, Florida students and other Facebookers are continuing to debate whether Mr. Meyer’s rights were violated.
For an interesting discussion on whether he should’ve been ejected (it may have been his mention of a sexual act, not a secret society, that prompted the heave-ho) and whether what he did amounted to resisting arrest, check out this forum, which requires registration.
If nothing else, the episode left Senator Kerry looking aloof, a criticism lobbed at him regularly during the 2004 campaign. As the incident unfolded, he tried to use his microphone to lighten the mood, seemingly unaware of the seriousness of the situation. Later, he said that he had not been aware until afterward that the student had been shocked with a Taser.
And while even Mr. Meyer’s friends concede that he unraveled a bit during his on-mike, on-camera rant, the senator on the receiving end of the rant said he regretted “enormously” that “a good healthy discussion” was cut short.

Kid, I don't care if they deliberately kicked him in the balls, then broke his legs. It's not torture. Assault for sure, but not even close to torture. You'd probably call a paper cut torture (actually you might be right there).