Does Patriotism Make Sense?

[VetLegion]

Good points. But the reasons Basques won't move could be various.

1) They won't move because they've occupied the territory since before the time of Christ, and they feel strongly connected to it.

2) They won't move because it sends the signal that they are pushovers. They won't be safe on their new island (say if oil is discovered there) if it is known that with some determination you can displace them.

I think the reason for people so strongly hanging on to some territory is more along the lines of 2) than 1).

[Kidlicious]

patriotism

[Master Zen]

Originally posted by Cort Haus


Why don't you just f*ck off then and do everyone a favour?

[Pekka]

I think the problem with patriotism as well as nationalism is that it often turns into jingoism. Well, that's not TOO bad, lots of peopel around the world are jingoists, maybe even most, and that doesn't hurt anyone but... blind patriotism and blind nationalism is not healthy.

And this is something patriots and nationalists often don't see in themselves, they think they're just patriots, but you can spot them because they _never_ really question authorities, in fact they defend them and often go lengths about making others shut up who have a problem with it. These people do not fit the real definition of patriotism though, but they think they are.

I don't think there's anything wrong to be proud of the country oyu're from or to think it's worth defending or to like your own culture and the people in it. Of course that can also take a wrong turn but.. usually people just are passively doing and supporting things so they really don't go for anything else than "rooting for our team", which is only natural. Not a big deal IMO.

However, people who lke to often pound their torso and announce that they're patriots, often those people are also the ones who are lifting themselves up and thinking they're better people or better citizens that the "others". THese people are remarkably often losers and rarely do you find an actual contributor from this camp. Rarely. Their overall contribution to the society is prolly on the negative when it comes to support and spending tax money anyway.

You know, the people who take the home team jersey and wear it at work, wear it everywhere and "woohoo I'm a fan". Those people are usually very low with their IQ, often irritating and causing more problems than not. An example, if someone would question my patriotism because of my opinions, someone from that camp I just described? They're being a problem, these people are the scum of the earth adn these are the ones who usually are the biggest enemy of free society. They don't realize it though, but that's because they're stupid.

[Wiglaf]

Originally posted by Master Zen

Nice signature there. In what way exactly are you the Secretary General of the UN? Are you also the VP of the Star Trek Fan Club?

[Wiglaf]

blind patriotism and blind nationalism is not healthy.

Good insight there, pekka.

[Kidlicious]

Wiggy,

Since you dislike the thread so much (whatever), why don't you say something in defense of patriotism like we all know you want to do.

[Pekka]

Well I'll defend patriotism to the extent that as long as you're not putting anyone down because they're not like you adn realize that when they disagree with you, it doesn't mean they're being unpatriotic... basically as long as you're not using it as a tool to treat other people... I don't think it's a problem. I'll root for my home team also .

****, I*m moving soon, so I'm getting a new home team! I hope I like them... it would suck to hate them. I like rooting.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Pekka
Well I'll defend patriotism

Go ahead. Why should we be patriotic?

[Barnabas]

Patriotism only makes sense in groups in which everybody is related, like a super extended family, I remember reading that there were less than 50 thousand finns a few centuries ago, like around 1500, so the 4 million finns share a lot, it is all about passing the genes to the next generation.

In countries like the USA which have 300 million people of very different origins, it doesnt make so much sense.

Being "american" one could say is about sharing some ideas and not about sharing ancestry

[Kuciwalker]

In countries like the USA which have 300 million people of very different origins, it doesnt make so much sense.

Being "american" one could say is about sharing some ideas and not about sharing ancestry

You contradicted yourself in the span of two sentences.

[Pekka]

Kid, I'm not going to defend it to that extent, as in why you should be patriotic. I don't think you have to be one. Why would you have to be one?

[Kidlicious]

Pekka, np, just seeing if anyone will defend it.

[Berzerker]

me
family
clan
tribe
ethic/religious group (big and possibly scattered tribe)
region
nation

when nation's fall apart patriotism climbs the ladder back to the tribal level.

[VetLegion]

Originally posted by Berzerker
when nation's fall apart patriotism climbs the ladder back to the tribal level.

Can you elaborate a bit?