The Sports Forum should be renamed..

[Mercator]

Originally posted by Ming
The sports forum is a great success... allowing people who play the apolyton sports games a chance to find their threads on page one instead of buried on page two.

... which is exactly why Winston is right. It's not a Sports forum. It's a Sports Games forum.

[Winston]

I think it would be unfair to close the sports forum just because a few people here have the opinion that it is keeping them from discussing their sports

Whereas I think it would be fair to say that somebody is not really getting what we're concerned about. At all.

Why were the sport topics separated out? To make it easier to conduct fantasy games? How many people post regularly to the Sports Forum now as compared to the number that would on occasion post in OT sport threads before the separation? Are fantasy games really to be considered part of a wider discussion on sport? If so, why?

Have you given any thought to what exactly constitutes "success" on an internationally visited site such as the one of which you've now become co-owner? Does it possibly entail other things than the same 20 people predicting college football games and MLB home run averages ad nauseum?

I will have to repeat myself here. Why were the sport topics separated from the OT to begin with?

[Wezil]

Save the effort Winston. They have never listened.

[Winston]

I fear that you're right, Wezil. But:

If, as I suspect, the Sports Forum was first and foremost conceived of as a means to easier enable fantasy game predictions, then I have to ask, what was to prevent the relatively few posters who actually participate in these games from

1) Bookmarking

2) Subscribing

3) Using the My Threads feature

4) Looking just a little harder

in order to locate the threads that they're interested in?

It's what the rest of us do..

Or they could preface their thread titles with "--F--" and sort through them alphabetically.

Either one of these suggestions would have the added benefit of also allowing hundreds of other posters to, you know, enjoy a little sports talk once in a while. Although I'm a little unclear on whether that last bit is of any real importance to you, it could turn out to be a real success! It was before, you know. Back when sports discussion actually worked nicely as a natural part of the OT.

[Wezil]

As an aside, I have the same issue with the History forum. Threads I would once have participated in I now don't even see. Meanwhile the OT grows slower, with fewer posters and less traffic.

Could I go to these forums? Yes, of course but it seems I spend more time navigating at Apolyton (when the server is working of course) than actually seeing anything of substance. Yes, lets click into the subforum only to find no new posts in three days. Yawn...

[Lancer]

You're making too much sense Winston. I predict you will soon be treated like dirt.

[Wiglaf]

i think there is not enough activity in either of the 3 subforums to justify their existence. how this is debatable, i still have no idea.

[Wiglaf]

i have to admit, the administration is remarkably incompetent for such a simple job. they are not in charge of federal disaster relief or managing scientific research. they run a civ site and cannot even manage its off topic forum sensibly.

[Lancer]

The ship is sinking and they are rearranging the deck chairs. Personally I'm glad they've found something to keep themselves busy.

[Wezil]

Originally posted by Lancer
The ship is sinking and they are rearranging the deck chairs. Personally I'm glad they've found something to keep themselves busy.

QFT.

[Ming]

Originally posted by Winston
Whereas I think it would be fair to say that somebody is not really getting what we're concerned about. At all.

I understand perfectly... because people don't post about what you are interested in, you are complaining.
That's really all you are saying... it has nothing to do with a seperate forum. Nothing is stopping you or anybody else from creating the types of threads you seem to want. If people don't post, it's not the forums fault.

Why were the sport topics separated out? To make it easier to conduct fantasy games? How many people post regularly to the Sports Forum now as compared to the number that would on occasion post in OT sport threads before the separation? Are fantasy games really to be considered part of a wider discussion on sport? If so, why?

Yes... it does make it easier to conduct fantasy games.
(And considering this is a GAMING site, it makes sense to do so) We have been playing sports fantasy games, and pick em tournaments since the very beginning of of the OTF. It is now easier to particapate and more people are playing... which is a good thing. And yes, fantasy sports is just as much discussion about sports as any of the topics you claim you like. People have different interests... you like your sports, other people like their sports.

Have you given any thought to what exactly constitutes "success" on an internationally visited site such as the one of which you've now become co-owner? Does it possibly entail other things than the same 20 people predicting college football games and MLB home run averages ad nauseum?

Yes... success is an active forum. The sports forum is a very active and well particapated in forum. There is now MORE sports discussion than before... Is your idea of success less people discussing sports unless it's your sport? If so, that's a pretty selfish view.

I will have to repeat myself here. Why were the sport topics separated from the OT to begin with?

We have given the reasons over and over again... but one more time just for you.

There is more than enough discussion to justify it's own forum... as proven by the number of threads, posts, and posters. (Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's not a success for many others)

It makes it easier to form contests and sports games, while also making it easier to find the sports threads if that is what you want to talk about. They don't get lost in all the silly spam threads and the repeat political threads where the same thing gets said over and over again.

Maybe some people would like to avoid all that crap and simply discuss sports. Now they have a place to do so, and people seem to be using it. You should give it a try and actually see if people will discuss your sports.

[Ming]

Originally posted by Winston
Either one of these suggestions would have the added benefit of also allowing hundreds of other posters to, you know, enjoy a little sports talk once in a while.

And please explain again what is stopping the hundreds of other posters from just clicking on that forum

Are you really saying that you are too lazy to look at any more than just the OTF... maybe you should check the rest of the site out too... There are a lot of people who never go to the OTF... just think, if we moved the sports back there, there would be HUNDREDS maybe even THOUSANDS of posters who would be denied access to sports talk...



Again... please explain what's so hard about a checking out another forum for sports talk...

Maybe the lack of discussion of your sports has to do more with the fact that there are a lesser number of Europeans posters now than it is about a seperate forum

[Winston]

I'm complaining about the fact that ever since you divided up the OT, thereby killing the versatility that was always one of its strongest assets, discussion of any sport with a wider participation has come to a halt. As to whose fault it is, the coincidence of the separation and the sport discussion shortly dying should offer a valuable clue to all but the ones who don't really care. Like you..

We've now established that the separation was done solely for the benefit of a dozen or so fantasy gamers. Good. Now how about the rest of us. You keep suspiciously avoiding the fact that there is no longer any working channel for the wider discussion of sport. The evidence is right there in front of you, what more do you need? The Sports Forum works for fantasy gamers and a handful of others, it does not work for the rest of the OT, since people don't go there. Or do you deny this? I don't see how you could, but if you truly don't care, then there's not much point in carrying on a debate.

You didn't care to address my suggestions for fantasy gamers to locate their threads in any of a number of conventional ways that the rest of us use.

You don't care that this is clearly not a case of just conflicting interests existing between Americans and Europeans, as you've been the only one to claim more than once, or which sports are more popular, whatever the Hell that means.

It's ultimately about preserving and maintaining an active OT forum. Separating out into subforums is railroading it out of existence. But do you care? You did way back when you accepted the position of moderator - when the alternative would have been the final and irreversible shutting down of all Off Topic debate on Apolyton. And for that i commend you. You were the voice and actor of reason then. But your replies here have shown that reason is no longer at the top of your priorities. I have to wonder if even the continued well-being of the OT is.

Too bad. But enjoy your successful Sports Forum. I can almost guarantee you that there'll be noone to disturb your enjoyment or in any way try to shift its already remarkable level of success.

[b etor]

people not going to the OTF

[Lancer]

We need a new forum for discussing this stuff.