Aircraft carriers for everyone!

[Lonestar]

Originally posted by lord of the mark


Nothing, just throwing out a factoid.

Russia didnt exactly rule the waves, but their naval history is a BIT more than Tsushima Straight.

The Russian navy has never, ever, aquitted itself well against a World-class navy. Certainly, they have not fought any large battles in the modern era. So they have over a hundred years of no real expierience to draw on(even in peace time the USN is running around doing stuff and in numbers), and even before that they have no real "we can stand up to the best" tradition. The USN gots John Paul Jones, and Oliver Hazard Perry. The RN has Lord Nelson. The FN has Comte de Grasse. The Russian navy has...John Paul Jones?

[Patroklos]

The Russian navy has...John Paul Jones?

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Lonestar


The Russian navy has never, ever, aquitted itself well against a World-class navy. Certainly, they have not fought any large battles in the modern era. So they have over a hundred years of no real expierience to draw on(even in peace time the USN is running around doing stuff and in numbers), and even before that they have no real "we can stand up to the best" tradition. The USN gots John Paul Jones, and Oliver Hazard Perry. The RN has Lord Nelson. The FN has Comte de Grasse. The Russian navy has...John Paul Jones?

Likes I said, they didnt "rule the waves"

Russian naval history starts with Peter the Great, right? During the 18th c they used their fleet in the Baltic, mainly against Sweden, IIUC, maybe sometimes against Prussia, and in the Baltic against Turkey. I dont know the history of the northern wars, and they won against Turkey. During the Napoleonic wars they when they actually joined them, they were allied with Britain, so there was no call for them to do much at sea, AFAIK.

During the 19th c they fought against the Turks (and won) or during Crimea against UK, France AND Turkey. Not many powers could have taken on that combo at sea and won.

Then we have Japan. Tsushima Straight. Sure they lost. But moving a fleet around from Europe to the far east was a pretty daring act, it wasnt really a fight in a balanced situation, was it?

And then, what, more small fights against Germany in the Baltic, and Turkey/Germany in the Black sea.

[Chemical Ollie]

Originally posted by Joker85
You realize you're linking the opinion piece from a guy who advocates using WMDs on the civilian population in Iraq as a "solution" to win the war.
---

I suppose you mean this post? http://www.exile.ru/2006-November-17...n_in_iraq.html

Your irony detector needs fixing. He's not really advocating use of WMD's, he just fails to be sentimental about it. He pretty much predicted the outcome of the Iraq war spot-on before the invasion and that was the reason he was opposed to the war: The only way to win that kind of guerilla war by military means is the Roman way: brutal opression and genocide. As USA is not prepared to use those methods (small errors like Abu Graib aside), USA should not invade in the first place.

In the same post, he said that a much more effective way to win, at the same cost as what has been spent so far, would be to give every Iraqi family 70000 $.

[BeBMan]

Well about admirals - that guy is quite known:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fyodor_Fyodorovich_Ushakov

He was quite innovative against the Turkish navy during the 18th century. Turkey had quite a modern fleet back then due to French help, but crew training/morale and commanders sucked. For Russia it was the other way around, at least with Ushakov .....

[Serb]

Originally posted by Patroklos


I am not sure how many times this has been thrown in the face of Serb whenever he dredges up that single, limited exercise in restricted waters.

I am glad you did it so I don't have too

Excuse me, are you blind?

This is my first post in this thread.

[Serb]

Originally posted by Lonestar
As for the Russians, well, Russia doesn't exactly have a long proud maritime tradition, does it?

Russian maritime tradition is older than your country.

[Serb]

Originally posted by Zkribbler


Under the command of John Paul Jones.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Serb
Excuse me, are you blind?

This is my first post in this thread.

His post didn't imply you had.

[Serb]

Originally posted by Lonestar


The Russian navy has never, ever, aquitted itself well against a World-class navy. Certainly, they have not fought any large battles in the modern era. So they have over a hundred years of no real expierience to draw on(even in peace time the USN is running around doing stuff and in numbers), and even before that they have no real "we can stand up to the best" tradition. The USN gots John Paul Jones, and Oliver Hazard Perry. The RN has Lord Nelson. The FN has Comte de Grasse. The Russian navy has...John Paul Jones?

The Russian Navy has Ushakov.

Lord Nelson just copy/pasted Ushakov's ideas.

[Serb]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker


His post didn't imply you had.

Really? I've never quoted War Nerd and never discussed the outcome of this exercise.

WTF?
Explain yourself, Patroklos.

[Serb]

Originally posted by lord of the mark


Likes I said, they didnt "rule the waves"

Russian naval history starts with Peter the Great, right?

Not exactly. First Russian large maritime operation was in 907 a.d. When Russian prince Oleg gathered 2000 (two thousand ships with 40 crew members per ship) ships and after a naval raid laid seige on Constantinople.

[Lord Avalon]

Originally posted by Patroklos
...
And it has done so to its detriment, though Russia had no choice. You and many Russians seem to think you adopted the sub centric doctrine because you deemed it superior. This is ridiculous. You adopted it because you had no choice. There was no way you could ever reach naval parody so you went with the most cost effective interdiction method (a la Germany WWI/WWII).

...

[DaShi]

And that was the end of the Russian fleet.

[Serb]