It Seems All Is Not Lost, Despite What Some Say

[Ben Kenobi]

Or, rather (and probably more apt), a testimony of the unattractiveness of jobs in poor areas.

I don't know. What would you do Imran, flip burgers or put yourself in harms way in the military?

Which is an absolutely horse**** "suggestion". Why are the rich less patriotic simply because they have more money? A far more rational "suggestion" is that the poor don't want to be there as much as the rich don't, but the poor don't have as many alternate options.

Everyone has options. Why would the poor people choose to serve their country if not for patriotism as one of their motivations? Frankly I am not surprised to hear that someone who isn't poor assumes that the poor simply signed up to get three squares a day rather then live off welfare.

I've been to the US, and I've seen many who were proud to serve their country, and I'm going to say that irrespective of whether they are rich or poor. All I said is that all other things being equal, that one of the things we can conclude from more poor people serving in a volunteer army then the rich that poor people are more patriotic.

[Patroklos]

All I said is that all other things being equal, that one of the things we can conclude from more poor people serving in a volunteer army then the rich that poor people are more patriotic.

This isn't true as a percentage. The US military is a middle class organization.

[GePap]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi


What were my opinions Gepap?

I would be impressed if you could find them. I was very clear. I said NUMEROUS TIMES prior to the war that the US should be prepared to be engaged for a very long time, much longer then they have already been there if they wish to see a democracy that is stable. I made many numerous allusions to the British in India as a successful transition, and used that as an argument against intervention. You can look it up.
I love it how you seem to know everything about me Gepap, but yet you haven't found a single quote from me in 2003 on this issue.
Have I ever been a supporter of the war?
Was I one of those, Gepap? Go back and check. I never said that US intervention would be short or easy, I said it would be long and much longer then most folks even considered.

So show me proof. Its for you to troll through the archives, not me. I already have for past quotes to show what I said right as the war started.

[Patroklos]

Gepap asking someone to prove a negative

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
I don't know. What would you do Imran, flip burgers or put yourself in harms way in the military?

I'd personally flip burgers, but then again, I don't have a family to support, and don't have need for the higher salary in the military (which is much higher than working at McD's).

Everyone has options. Why would the poor people choose to serve their country if not for patriotism as one of their motivations?

It pays well. Far better than, say, flipping burgers.

All I said is that all other things being equal, that one of the things we can conclude from more poor people serving in a volunteer army then the rich that poor people are more patriotic.

All other things are not equal. Poor people have less options than rich people (living off daddy ain't as much an option).

Why do you think poor people are more patriotic than rich people?

[GePap]

Originally posted by Patroklos
Gepap asking someone to prove a negative

yourself.

This very thread began with a post filled with people making false claims about their positions in the past.

As for a "false negative", all ben has to do is go to the archived section, and link to some post of his from two or three years ago in which he states what he claims his position has always been.

It called putting your money where your mouth is.

[Patroklos]

Gepap,

You made an assertion on his past, YOU have the burden of proving it, not him.

If I had a penny for every time you've pulled this stunt I'd buy a soda, though I will declare now that I have no intention of going back through the forums and proving it.

This very thread began with a post filled with people making false claims about their positions in the past.

Another comment backed up by absolutely nothing. At least your predictable.

[Gibsie]

I think on that last point, it's best to just clearly state the two original authors were NEVER critics of the war in the context that they appear to be claiming, and move on. However, they do not make as a big of a deal as one would think from reading certain posts...