Are you afraid to die?

[Japher]

By his grace you are saved... live on

[Jon Miller]

Not really afraid to die. I have become concerned about the lack of results in my life so far, and am beggining to work on that.

When I am dead, I don't want to have no effects of my life 5 years afterwards.

It use to be my philosophy to effect nothing, so I have a long way to go.

JM

[Blake]

I'm not afraid of death.

I'm not afraid of death because I've always believed in rebirth - the stream of consciousness does not end (at least insofar as it exists at all). Death should be viewed as a bit of an inconvenience followed by a bunch of years as a screaming baby/toddler then a confused child and an angsty teen and maybe, just maybe, getting back on the path to enlightenment.

Annoying sure, but hardly scary.

Note that whether or not rebirth is real, taking the attitude that it is real is liberation from suffering. So I am happy to listen to my intuition on this one rather than expose it to the full scrutiny of rationality. I basically believe, that attempting to fully rationalize death-as-void leads to rational nihilism - where logically nothing you do matters. I tend to think that in order to be sane, someone either needs to believe that death isn't void, or to be in some level of denial about death being void (ie avoids thinking about it).



"The Hell Law says that Hell is reserved exclusively for them that believe in it. Further, the lowest Rung in Hell is reserved for them that believe in it on the supposition that they'll go there if they don't."

[thesilentone]

Originally posted by Blake
Note that whether or not rebirth is real, taking the attitude that it is real is liberation from suffering. So I am happy to listen to my intuition on this one rather than expose it to the full scrutiny of rationality. I basically believe, that attempting to fully rationalize death-as-void leads to rational nihilism - where logically nothing you do matters. I tend to think that in order to be sane, someone either needs to believe that death isn't void, or to be in some level of denial about death being void (ie avoids thinking about it).

Sounds a lot like faith in religion to me. It makes you happier to not consider the alternative. There's certainly truth in that, thinking about my own personal belief in death doesn't make me happier or anything, I just find it hard to believe in anything based on pure faith.

[Blake]

Brain in a vat.

You have faith that reality is as you perceive it.

An inescapable conclusion is that Logic can not be the only tool you use to think about things. Logic breaks down.

[thesilentone]

Originally posted by Blake
Brain in a vat.

You have faith that reality is as you perceive it.

An inescapable conclusion is that Logic can not be the only tool you use to think about things. Logic breaks down.

But I already consider my perception of reality to be a "brain in a vat" as you term it. I look at how we're essentially made of billions of cells with their own self interests, and even inside a cell there can be thousands of independent entities interacting with each other. Makes me wonder who's really running the show. Ever got really angry at something then later on taken a step back and looked at it logically, only to take a different stance? Our consciousness is not always in control.

But that's really beside the point, it hardly proves the point that death is anything other than a void, as real as 1979 was to me (born in 1980).

But don't take my argument personally, I'm just taking your points as further ways of elaborating my own point, I've no interest in changing your point of view, I understand there's no gain in that, and possibly a net loss in happiness.

[Wiglaf]

Originally posted by Blake
I'm not afraid of death.

I'm not afraid of death because I've always believed in rebirth - the stream of consciousness does not end (at least insofar as it exists at all). Death should be viewed as a bit of an inconvenience followed by a bunch of years as a screaming baby/toddler then a confused child and an angsty teen and maybe, just maybe, getting back on the path to enlightenment.

Annoying sure, but hardly scary.

Note that whether or not rebirth is real, taking the attitude that it is real is liberation from suffering. So I am happy to listen to my intuition on this one rather than expose it to the full scrutiny of rationality. I basically believe, that attempting to fully rationalize death-as-void leads to rational nihilism - where logically nothing you do matters. I tend to think that in order to be sane, someone either needs to believe that death isn't void, or to be in some level of denial about death being void (ie avoids thinking about it).



"The Hell Law says that Hell is reserved exclusively for them that believe in it. Further, the lowest Rung in Hell is reserved for them that believe in it on the supposition that they'll go there if they don't."

[Traianvs]

Originally posted by Blake
Brain in a vat.

You have faith that reality is as you perceive it.

An inescapable conclusion is that Logic can not be the only tool you use to think about things. Logic breaks down.

But faith is... faith. If it made more sense, it'd be called something else. The simple fact that it's 'faith' makes it senseless really. The whole point of faith is that it's not logical, so you can invent whatever you want. A moderate believer might think what he believes is true, but an extremist sectarian thinks likewise. How can you possibly tell who is right, if it depends on faith?


PS: After reading Seneca, nothing really scares me. Death doesn't bother me. I know a few people would have a hard time, but I also know they will get over it rather soon just like I've seen with some other people dying in my direct neighbourhood. Life's not all that special, unless you're a nobel prize winner or some important figure in life or whateva

[Blake]

But faith is... faith. If it made more sense, it'd be called something else. The simple fact that it's 'faith' makes it senseless really. The whole point of faith is that it's not logical, so you can invent whatever you want. A moderate believer might think what he believes is true, but an extremist sectarian thinks likewise. How can you possibly tell who is right, if it depends on faith?

Not quite.

Your mistake is in equating Sense with Reason.

Things can make sense, without being entirely reasonizable. And it's possible for reason to make no sense.

In Buddhism there is the important concept of The Middle Way. It's to not declare that something is the one right thing. It's equally wrong to declare that "Faith justify anything" as it is to declare that "Reason can justify anything".

Example:
(Inspired by the koan "If they are our brothers, how come we can't eat them?")

I decide to eat my brother because I believe that I can steal his spiritual mojo - A decision made on faith.
I decide to eat my brother because I am hungry. A decision made on reason.

Reason can be every bit as insane as faith! And the problem is in taking them - both faith, and reason, to extremes. I am not a Buddhist, but I do pursue The Middle Way. That is how I make my decisions, to not fall victim to delusions caused by extreme forms of thinking.

Here's a question which defies logical thinking:
What should my purpose in life be?
or
How should I measure the success of my life?

Take the answer to that, and find the logic behind that answer. I daresay you wont find a logical source which also makes sense.

[Mrs. Tuberski]

how does faith spare you a painful death? how does faith spare u an early death. Im courious what fath has to do withanyne dying. Is it the after the fact im missing? Cause i cant see anyone standng up to say yep im ready to go take me know give me your worst

[GePap]

Well, I have no intention of dying, and I will avoid anything that might end my life, but wanting to continue living is not the same as having some existential fear of death.

As for the issue of "faith", I have none, and knowing that death is an end does not scare me. What is the point of being scared of the end? It will come. Enjoy everything up until then.

[Blake]

Originally posted by Mrs. Tuberski
how does faith spare you a painful death? how does faith spare u an early death. Im courious what fath has to do withanyne dying. Is it the after the fact im missing? Cause i cant see anyone standng up to say yep im ready to go take me know give me your worst

That's just lack of perspective, since there really are people who do go out like that (although they may be considered insane/delusional since in western culture it is considered insane to not fear death!)

Well, I can explain how faith can spare you the pain of an early death.

Say a child dies. This is horrible. Their one chance at life and it was snuffed out. It's an unthinkable tragedy.

Within the context of rebirth, it's still a tragedy, but it's not so manifestly unfair, they get another, many other chances. "We all have some good lives and some bad lives".

In the context of heaven, it's not so bad. Children often get automatic entry into heaven.

In this way, faith eases the pain, reduces the suffering. You may say it's wrong to not suffer after someone has died, but what dead person would want their loved ones to suffer?

edit: And I also need to mention, that liberation from being fixated on the pain of loss allows one to remember the joy of their life.

[SlowwHand]

The point is that death is not an end. Not to those of faith, which some can't understand and my heart goes out to them.

[GePap]

Originally posted by SlowwHand
The point is that death is not an end. Not to those of faith, which some can't understand and my heart goes out to them.

Why do people with "faith" have such a fear of something coming to an end?

Plus, if death is just "the beginning" of a much longer period, why even bother with the here and now?!? I find it silly to think that tops 110 years of existance is what then determines the rest of this supposed existance through eternity. It really seems like such utter nonsense.

[SlowwHand]

I have no fear of something coming to an end.
Where do you get that idea? Did I say that? No.