Racists win 2.0

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
Here's a question for che. Should you care about losing the Hispanic vote when your support in the entire electorate goes up?

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/following_immigration_debate_number_of_republicans_in_usa_increases

See, you can have political success while doing what's right for the country.

I'm not sure that a 1% increase is terribly significant.

[PLATO]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara


I'm not sure that a 1% increase is terribly significant.

Whoa! 1%? That's huge! With approx 50 million registered Republicans, that would be an increase of 500,000!

I think that, especially compared to democratic membership being flat, that this is a hugely significant thing!

Why would you think this is not?

[Kuciwalker]

I'm trying to figure out if PLATO is being sarcastic.

[PLATO]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker
I'm trying to figure out if PLATO is being sarcastic.

I'll never tell.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
I'm wondering the samething about you as well, che. Especially in light of the fact that I've seen no political will on the part of the government to actually enforce the law we have now. What reason can you give me to assume the law that got shot down would have made any difference in that regard?

There is a very high demand for immigrant labor and no way to meet it other than through illegal immigration. That's why the law wasn't enforced. Because aside from a bunch of racists and cranks, most people didn't want it enforced!

As for this law, as I wrote earlier, it wouldn't have given amnesty to anyone, since no one would put themselves through all that BS just to do what they are doing today. What idiot would pay $5000 and go back to their country to wait for a chance to get back in to the US?

The purpose of the law wasn't to get passed. It was to get the GOP to shoot itself in the foot, which it obligingly did.

In any event, I don't care whether the border is enforced or not, except to keep terrorists out. The "provisions" in the 1986 law to "enforce" the border were just a sop to the racists who think there are too many Brown people comin' to America. They were stupid enough to believe it. Why you think it was anything more than that is beyond me.

No, why do I think that making it easier for migrant workers to come to the U.S. would lower illegal immigration? Because most people would rather take the easy way, with guaranteed better wages, labor protection, and not have to worry about getting caught and sent home. If you set up a system that allows enough people in, illegal immigration will fall, if only because the people who would have been illegal are now legal.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
That's why the law wasn't enforced. Because aside from a bunch of racists and cranks, most people didn't want it enforced!

Is it even worthwhile continuing this discussion with you, Oerdin?

[Drake Tungsten]

I'm not sure that a 1% increase is terribly significant.

I don't know how significant it is, but it doesn't really jibe with your "OMFG! The GOP just screwed itself" theory. Frankly, I think the GOP would've been more screwed if they had helped pass the shamnesty. They might've picked up a few percentage points with Mexican voters, but they would've lost a great deal of their base.

Is it even worthwhile continuing this discussion with you, Oerdin?

Low blow, dude...

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten

I'm not sure that a 1% increase is terribly significant.

I don't know how significant it is, but it doesn't really jibe with your "OMFG! The GOP just screwed itself" theory. Frankly, I think the GOP would've been more screwed if they had helped pass the shamnesty. They might've picked up a few percentage points with Mexican voters, but they would've lost a great deal of their base.

The GOP had managed to pick up a significant portion of the Hispanic vote in the 2000 and 2004 elections, something like 40%. As for the GOP base, where else are they gonna go?

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
Is it even worthwhile continuing this discussion with you, Oerdin?

The folks who talk about the illegal immigration problem in American never talk about Canadian or Irish illegal immigration, both large groups. The sad fact for you is that by and large, the anti-illegal immigration movement is more or less the nativist movement.

Frankly, I've rarely heard anyone complain about illegal immigration without making racist statements about Mexicans. Anecdotal evidence don't mean squat, but I did grow up in an area with a significant Mexican influx, so I've heard a lot of this crap first hand. It was never about the law, it was always about all these god damned Mexicans, just like it was about the Irish and Italians and Poles and every other immigrant group before them. It's the same nativist, know-nothing crap that's been going on for over a hundred years. You can try and put lipstick on a pig, but it's still just a pig.

[Drake Tungsten]

As for the GOP base, where else are they gonna go?

They can stay at home.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
They can stay at home.

They'll do that for exactly one election.

[Drake Tungsten]

One election can make a huge difference. Where would the Dems be at now if the parts of their base that abandoned Gore for Nader in 2000 hadn't done so?

[chequita guevara]

I doubt they'd be poised to take total control of the government they way they are now. They would have continued sliding further and further to the right, further alienating more and more of their base, losing Congress by larger and larger margins. They certainly wouldn't be as fired up now as they are, since the Iraq War wouldn't have occurred.

[SlowwHand]

You should write fictional tales of political intrigue.

[Drake Tungsten]

I doubt they'd be poised to take total control of the government they way they are now. They would have continued sliding further and further to the right, further alienating more and more of their base, losing Congress by larger and larger margins.

They obviously would've had to slide to the left if they were going to keep their base from jumping on the Nader bandwagon, just like the GOP is going to have to slide right and shore up its conservative credentials if it doesn't want its base to stay home in 2008.