Do illegal aliens have Congressional representation? Should they?

[Japher]

I'm saying if they want to be represented they have to be citizens, which would make them legal, which would require them to pay taxes on taxable income. And, there are laws that require you to pay taxes on income.

They can't be counted because they come and go as they please and don't bother to show themselves to be counted.

You are the one advocating that people can be part of a system when it benefits them, and not part of the system when it doesn't benefit them. That is not how a civil society behaves or works. You can't just show up to some company, start working, and expect to get paid and have a say in how the company is ran.

there is no law that requires you to pay taxes in order to be represented.

So now you're all about laws? What ever happen to ignoring the word illegal?

(Having fun AAHZ?)

[Patroklos]

So now you're all about laws? What ever happen to ignoring the word illegal?

Kid swings both ways, depending on what sounds good to him at the time.

[Japher]

Well, so do I...

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Japher
I'm saying if they want to be represented they have to be citizens, which would make them legal, which would require them to pay taxes on taxable income.

I agree that they should have to pay income taxes.

And, there are laws that require you to pay taxes on income.

Obviously they should pay taxes but since it is illegal for them to work here how can they pay taxes?

They can't be counted because they come and go as they please and don't bother to show themselves to be counted.

Neither do a lot of homeless people. Counting people can be difficult, but not impossible. You should count what you can.

You are the one advocating that people can be part of a system when it benefits them, and not part of the system when it doesn't benefit them. That is not how a civil society behaves or works. You can't just show up to some company, start working, and expect to get paid and have a say in how the company is ran.

Who says that that's not how a civil society works? You seem to be just making that up. Rights aren't paid for. If you had to pay for your rights they wouldn't be rights.

So now you're all about laws? What ever happen to ignoring the word illegal?

(Having fun AAHZ?)

I'm not ignoring any laws. Are you an illegal because you drive over the speed limit? Why are you an illegal if you violate immigration law?

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Japher
Well, so do I...

No you don't.

[PLATO]

Originally posted by Kidicious

First you claim that they shouldn't be represented because they are criminals (comparing them to murderers), which isn't true. They haven't broken any criminal law.

Comparing illegals to murderers? No. However, they have broken US law...are here illegally, and are criminals.

I have seen no one compare speeders to murderers, yet speeders must still suffer the consequences of breaking the law. It is ridiculous to single out one group of lawbreakers and say that just because they are in search of an economic improvement in their life that we just ignore the law or spin the idea that they are not criminals.

The actual defininition of criminal is

criminal
Function: noun
1 : one who has committed a crime

Without question, undocumented people from foriegn countries have broken US law...which is a crime. Nowhere does the definition say that they have to be like murderers to be called a criminal.


Now, should criminals be entitled to representation? That is another question entirely. I believe that the census is charged with counting every person, regardless of criminal history. In the event they cannot reach everyone, then they are required to estimate the population from known facts. This is how congressional districtsare drawn.

So, it would seem that Congressmen are apportioned with respect to the illegal population (to the extent the census gets it right), but is unlikely to "represent"them due to the legal population being the only ones who will elect said Congressman.

Simply another reason to do it the right way and come here legally...the right to vote.

[Kuciwalker]

Re: Do illegal aliens have Congressional representation? Should they?

No, of course not. Legal aliens don't and shouldn't either.

[Japher]

I guess we could all be in agreement that 1) they should have representation and 2) they should obtain the representation by becoming legal citizens?

[Patroklos]

nm

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by PLATO
Comparing illegals to murderers? No. However, they have broken US law...are here illegally, and are criminals.

It is more accurate to call someone driving 1 mile over the speed limit a criminal but even that is wrong and absurd.

I have seen no one compare speeders to murderers, yet speeders must still suffer the consequences of breaking the law. It is ridiculous to single out one group of lawbreakers and say that just because they are in search of an economic improvement in their life that we just ignore the law or spin the idea that they are not criminals.

I never said that the law should be ignored. There are no consequences for immigrating to the US whether you are documented or not. Some people would like there to be consequences I'm sure, but as of this time there are no consquences as there are when you speed or make some other violation.

The actual defininition of criminal is

criminal
Function: noun
1 : one who has committed a crime

We are talking about civil law not criminal law. Civil law deals with more that just violations.

Without question, undocumented people from foriegn countries have broken US law...which is a crime. Nowhere does the definition say that they have to be like murderers to be called a criminal.

Well you can call them whatever you want but you are wrong and you do so for political effect only. It's a bit silly for you to otherwise expect people to take you seriously when you place them in a lot with murderers.

[Japher]

It's a bit silly for you to otherwise expect people to take you seriously when you place them in a lot with murderers.

I did that, not PLATO

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Japher


I did that, not PLATO

Who are the crimanals? And don't just say those who commit crimes. If your grandmother fell of her walker and accidentally j walked would you call her a criminal?

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Kidicious
Who are the crimanals? And don't just say those who commit crimes.

Isn't that typically how it is defined?

[Zkribbler]

Originally posted by Kidicious
At any rate, all liberal Californians should support representation based on illegal status.

I believe Cali filed a lawsuit on this--basically saying that the Cali census numbers should be increased because people were hiding from the census takers and thus they should be "estimated." That suit lost.

[DanS]

Originally posted by Rufus T. Firefly
What I mean is this: the number of reps a state has is based on its population. But does that population count include illegals?

If so: Texas, say, would then have an extra congressman, owing to the size of its illegal population. Is that appropriate?

If not: the constitution says to count people in apportioning Congress -- it says nothing about thehir legal status. So then should states with more illegals get more Congressional representation?

Yes, the population count includes illegals. The Census Bureau has made clear that they will not hold it against illegals if they answer the census.

No, it's not appropriate that they are included for purposes of apportionment, but it's the only way to get an accurate enumeration of the people in a particular area.