Galileo at the trough of EU taxpayer money

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by Sprayber
I'm all for Europeans throwing their money into something that makes them feel good and important again

Aid for the homeless in New Orleans ?

[Sandman]

Originally posted by Thorgal

Too much Pirates of the Caribbean i think.

That's a bit harsh. How else can you stop smugglers and Somalians in speedboats but with a 100,000 ton aircraft carrier?

[Patroklos]

Way to completely miss the point of the quoted post, numbskull.

It was spot on KH, his insinuation that Europe makes up for its lack of deployable units with some imaginary logistic/political/economic contribution is crap (especially since the US provides the bulk in those concerns as well). Get a clue.

That's a bit harsh. How else can you stop smugglers and Somalians in speedboats but with a 100,000 ton aircraft carrier?

The last time anyone stopped them was with a 9,000 ton cruiser, but it certainly wasn't done with a European warship that wasn't there.

There are 25+ US warships in the 5th fleet right now (only one is a carrier, another transiting), most of which are more capable than the next 10 best Euro trash frigates combined. Not that there are even ten there to begin with.

[Thorgal]

Surrealist

[Patroklos]

Facts >

[Thorgal]

So you think that somali pirates could defeat any world navy excepting US navy----> US navy is needed to save the world of this terrible new menace.

I have to agree here with you though: In fact your post >>> At least are needed here.

[DanS]

Originally posted by Patroklos
But you wanted an example in Europe? How about security in the Medeterranian?

Who enforces most of the human trafficing/drug smuggling/enviromental/terrorism related laws in that body of water. Who kept an eye on Lybia all thos years? Hint, it isn't any of the countries with an actual adjacent coast line.

To be honest, I'm surprised that's the case. Pretty amazing.

[Ecthy]

In contrast to the US Europe didn't ever give a damn about Libya. Guess why.

[DanS]

Don't know why Europe wasn't concerned about nuclear weapons on its doorstep. Perhaps you will enlighten me.

But I'm more surprised at the Med Sea part.

[Patroklos]

So you think that somali pirates could defeat any world navy excepting US navy----> US navy is needed to save the world of this terrible new menace.

God the stupidity.

I don't think that Thorgal (and didn't say that), but it is all academic since the European navies are not there to find out.

If they are not there, they can't stop Somali slave traders/drug trafficers/pirates. Get it?

Forces in the HOA last time I was there:

USS Nicholas (FFG)
USS McFaul (DDG)
USS James E. Williams (DDG)
USS Leyte Gulf (CG)
USS Saipan (LHA)
HMS Al Dammam (FFG)
and

FMS Brandenburg (FFG)

Notice anything lopsided about that? Least capable ship there, shock, the European one. Thats right, the Saudi Arabians contribute more than Europe.

[Ecthy]

Originally posted by DanS
Don't know why Europe wasn't concerned about nuclear weapons on its doorstep. Perhaps you will enlighten me.

Dream on.

BTW, I was asking for CURRENT strategic assets of the US in Europe. Kuci was shamefully pwned, I hope oyu guys can do better. Afghanistan and the Formosa straight have already turned out to be outside of Europe.

The horn of Africa example is basically granted, though it must be admitted that the entire WoT issue is quite American-made.

[Patroklos]

The horn of Africa example is basically granted, though it must be admitted that the entire WoT issue is quite American-made.

Is human trafficking/right of passage/piracy/drug trafficking/arms smuggling US made? That is most of what goes on in the HOA.

And Libya was a small part of the security of the Mediterranean that falls disproportionately hard on the shoulders of the US.

And don't Europeans whine about Africa being in their shere of influence? I think it should be to, but reality doesn't allow it to be.

[Thorgal]

God the stupidity.

I don't think that Thorgal (and didn't say that), but it is all academic since the European navies are not there to find out.

If they are not there, they can't stop Somali slave traders/drug trafficers/pirates. Get it?

Forces in the HOA last time I was there:

USS Nicholas (FFG)
USS McFaul (DDG)
USS James E. Williams (DDG)
USS Leyte Gulf (CG)
USS Saipan (LHA)
HMS Al Dammam (FFG)
and

FMS Brandenburg (FFG)

Notice anything lopsided about that? Least capable ship there, shock, the European one. Thats right, the Saudi Arabians contribute more than Europe.

What that means for you? Do you really think the ships are in the zone to stop smugglers, slave trade, blah, blah?.

Only US and UK have some ships there not because they are the only who can, or because they care about somali slaves but becuase they (specially US) like to have pressence there for his own strategic interests, as Spain had several ships there a couple of years ago until they retired of the Iraq invasion. Do you think they are stoping smugglers and slave tradea and such. For Gods sake, what world are you living in?

And who cares about least capable ship there? Seriously how old are you?

[Dauphin]

Originally posted by Patroklos


It was spot on KH, his insinuation that Europe makes up for its lack of deployable units with some imaginary logistic/political/economic contribution is crap (especially since the US provides the bulk in those concerns as well). Get a clue.

You entirely missed the point. The discussion was about what force projection meant. The point made by me being that the presence of an aircraft carrier means nothing without at least some consideration to the other factors I raised.

I don't know which countries in the world have or don't have at least one aircraft carrier, but they are all presumably able to send it to the Strait of Formosa if they so wanted. It does not in any way imply that they will all be equally capable at force projection. Hence it is facile to state it as an example.

At no point did I make the insinuations you suggested. You presumed an insinuation that was not there because that is what you expected to read, no doubt.

[Patroklos]

What that means for you? Do you really think the ships are in the zone to stop smugglers, slave trade, blah, blah?.

Actually that is exactly what those ships are there for, as it states in the mission assignments of CTF 150, 151, and 152. Ever been to CTF 150 (HOA)? I have, and I am curious why I spent hours and hours in the blistering sun in a RHIB shuttling medical supplies to refugees and even more hours stalking slave/drug traders at night if that was not what I was there for?

Only US and UK have some ships there not because they are the only who can, or because they care about somali slaves but becuase they (specially US) like to have pressence there for his own strategic interests

Strategic interests eh? Interests like stopping the slave trade, keeping illegal arms out of Africa, securing the vital sea links from Asia to Europe, enforcing international maritime law? Yeah I can see why those are only concerns of the US/UK.

as Spain had several ships there a couple of years ago until they retired of the Iraq invasion.

Why would Spain have ships off the HOA in support of Iraq? Do any of the UN resolutions concerning the HOA and maritime law have anything to do with Iraq? If this is the case why does Spain still send warships to the the HOA every once in while?

More importantly, if HOA operations are in support of Iraq why was the flag officer I served under there (great guy btw) a German? Why was the flag officer I served under in the gulf Italian?

I could tell you, but you probably know that already, right?

Do you think they are stoping smugglers and slave tradea and such. For Gods sake, what world are you living in?

No I don't think that, I know that because I did it myself.

And who cares about least capable ship there? Seriously how old are you?

You see, when I am taking part in dangerous and difficult operations in an isolated part of the world performing tasks that are equally important to my allies, I would prefer those allies make available units that can actually get the job done. The FMS Brandenburg was a good ship with a great crew, but woefully inadequate for the job at hand considering what could have been provided.

And a correction, I served with the FMS Schleswig Holstein in the HOA the Brandenburg just passed through.