Galileo at the trough of EU taxpayer money

[BeBMan]

Originally posted by Ecthy
Shyte, Jane's be paysite.

Proof that lazy Euros don't want to spend some money on defense

[Ecthy]

Pat, so you know all about the increase in Chinese defense budget and Sweden's defense industry exports?

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Ecthy
The horn of Africa example is basically granted, though it must be admitted that the entire WoT issue is quite American-made.

The fight against Al-Qaeda is an American invention? Are you a 9/11 nutter?

[Ecthy]

Where exactly did 9/11 take place? I guess I'm not a nutter when I say that the WoT is more an American business than anyone else's. Of course after the Iraq invasion AQ was stupid enough to drag European countries into it.

Edit to clarify: European nations were in WoT before the Iraq invasion, but subject to AQ terrorism only after.

[Thorgal]

Originally posted by Patroklos


Where did I say that picture was piracy? Because you know I never mentioned any other threats in the area.

But I suppose terrorists bombing European oil tankers doesn't quality as peril to European trade.

Have fun keeping the Straits of Hormuz open by yourselves!



The after party is in the straights of Malacca.

Calm down mate. Since we were speaking about pirates, slave traders and smugglers supported by your somali allies, now suddenly you try to pass a non related pic about a terrorist act (the cause being US itself and his ally in the zone, but that is another matter )

That...is.....just....awesome.

Looking at the base knowledge you are using to discuss this topic, I suggest you go to Jane's as you are not worth my time.

Should i know the name? Not everybody is pathetically obssesed with US ships, you see. And i thought you would like to present the case in your own way manipulating it and such, not plainly trying to hide it...
But well... I was obviously speaking about USS Cole:

I mean, maybe you should look your own war ships first since you are the primary cause and objective in that security problems you are speaking about...

[Patroklos]

Proof that lazy Euros don't want to spend some money on defense

Pat, so you know all about the increase in Chinese defense budget and Sweden's defense industry exports?

Yes, though I think any alarmist view about China's navy in ridiculous. I could go on about this forever, perhaps another thread. Their new destroyers are about the equivalant to a Base Line 1 American Tico CG (radar, not armament/endurance/plant characteristics in which it is woefully lacking), which is a 28 year old design. There submarine fleet is getting larger but still plagued with problems. I just read that the Chinese are planning on deploying units to the SOM to help with piracy there. Good idea since that choke point is very important to them.

Sweden has some excellent equipment but they are not part of the alliance, so duplication of effort arguements don't apply to them. Their Visby class corvettes are what the LCS should be.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Ecthy
Where exactly did 9/11 take place? I guess I'm not a nutter when I say that the WoT is more an American business than anyone else's.

People always look at me like I'm crazy that all that, "We're all Americans!" stuff the world was spouting after 9/11 was just emotional BS and was bound to disapper regardless of what Bush did or did not do.

Of course after the Iraq invasion AQ was stupid enough to drag European countries into it.

What makes you think Europe had somesort of special free pass before?

[Ecthy]

There's no reason to think otherwise. The two countries that have been AQed in Yurop (UK, Spain) were Iraq war participants. Germany and other countries have been threatened and also been hit in form of hostage taking on behalf of ever newly-founded insurgent groups in Iraq, but that's hardly the same thing.

As far as your first point goes, did anyone expect total comitment on behalf of the allied countries' populations?

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Thorgal
I mean, maybe you should look your own war ships first since you are the primary cause and objective in that security problems you are speaking about...

It's proof of how well made US ships are and how well trained the crews are. They can stand up to Israeli attacks, terrorist bombs, etc. and still not sink. Just more proof of how much we rule.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by molly bloom
Aid for the homeless in New Orleans ?

Most of the homeless left New Orleans.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Ecthy
Dream on.

BTW, I was asking for CURRENT strategic assets of the US in Europe. Kuci was shamefully pwned,

I never answered or offered to answer your question.

[Patroklos]

Calm down mate. Since we were speaking about pirates, slave traders and smugglers supported by your somali allies

Yep islamists, or anyone else for that matter, have nothing to do with security threats in the region, no sir.

now suddenly you try to pass a non related pic about a terrorist act

For the second time, how is that pic not relevant to threats against European economic activity in the HOA, as you stated?

[quote]now suddenly you try to pass a non related pic about a terrorist act[quote]

Yes, as anyone who is aquainted with world events does. Especially someone like you trying to fain knowledge on this topic.

And how does the Cole bombing magically add warships to the inventories of Europe's navies so they can somehow fullfill your deluded notion that European defense obligations/requirements can be fullfilled by European forces?

Not everybody is pathetically obssesed with US ships

I bet, just like everyone is not interested in whatever job you do. Mine, however, provides me with the opportunity to not talk out of my ass on this subject, unlike others.

I mean, maybe you should look your own war ships first since you are the primary cause and objective in that security problems you are speaking about...

Hmmmm...., interesting opinion you have there. As world oil supplies go, who uses more ME oil, Europe or the US? Who made the ME the POS it is today in the first place? Who shares the same values as America and is equally a thorn in the islamic fundamentalist's side?

Yep, all America's doing. Spot on.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Dauphin
You entirely missed the point. The discussion was about what force projection meant. The point made by me being that the presence of an aircraft carrier means nothing without at least some consideration to the other factors I raised.

I don't know which countries in the world have or don't have at least one aircraft carrier, but they are all presumably able to send it to the Strait of Formosa if they so wanted. It does not in any way imply that they will all be equally capable at force projection. Hence it is facile to state it as an example.

At no point did I make the insinuations you suggested. You presumed an insinuation that was not there because that is what you expected to read, no doubt.

I wasn't asserting that, either. I agree force projection is generally more complex than the example I gave, but I don't see how that discredits the example. The essense of force projection is being able to apply pressure (primarily military) to achieve a political end, even when it doesn't involve actual combat - and my example illustrated that.

[Jon Miller]

I think that you can count the countries with aircraft carriers on two hands. If you also place limitations on the aircraft carriers actually working, having a decent number of planes, and being able to travel, I think you get down to one hand.

JM

[Patroklos]

I think that you can count the countries with aircraft carriers on two hands. If you also place limitations on the aircraft carriers actually working, having a decent number of planes, and being able to travel, I think you get down to one hand.

I will try off the top of my head, counting only active fixed wing carriers.

UK
France
Spain
Italy
Russia
US
Brazil
India
Thialand

I think that is it. Thialands might still be down for the count due to funding, not sure. And of course the ability for any to deploy long range outside France/UK/US is suspect, and the UK/France have very different carriers from the US nore have the capability to produce a battle group. Not really even in the same class, our Amphibs have about the same aviation capability.