Evil Estonians Crack Down on Helpless Russian Minority

[Arrian]

It's all he said, she said stuff. I think it's rather unlikely that anyone will be able to conclusively prove anything.

Anyway, it's pretty clear that Russia is ****ing with Estonia for no good reason, whether or not the cyber attacks were a government op.

-Arrian

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Serb


Your a product of your system and don't know a thing about Russia.

Whiskey Tango Foxtrot?

I was just letting our Finnish friend know that beer at the movies isnt that rare outside of Finland, how did I say anything about Russia?

Is idle chit chat foreign to Russia as well?

[Solver]

In Russia only secret services like the FSB can demand a commercial information (like location of the customer) to be revealed.

Then again, buying CDs with the national census registry or the corporation registry or taxpayer database isn't a big problem in Moscow

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Arrian
It's all he said, she said stuff. I think it's rather unlikely that anyone will be able to conclusively prove anything.

Anyway, it's pretty clear that Russia is ****ing with Estonia for no good reason, whether or not the cyber attacks were a government op.

-Arrian

somebodys doing it, and it seems like an excellent opportunity for cyber security folks to test out their methods, real time, against a bigger and more strategic attack than any theyve dealt with before. IF that points to Russian IPs, then it can also be a test of Russian willingness to cooperate on such matters.

[Colon™]

Serb, click here please: http://www.ip-adress.com/

[Serb]

And?

That's what I was talking about. You tracted my IP, my country, found the name of my ISP (OJSC Sibirtelecom) and the latitude and longitude of the CITY where my IPS located, NOT ME, goddamnit!
To find my location you have to ask my ISP (OJSC Sibirtelecom) to give you the information about location of one of their customers -me.

I can assure you, they will never give this info to you, because:
1) I'm thier customer and they are my provider. We signed a contract, which clearly says they won't do this, unless the FSB is asking for that (or another Russian secret service that have a right to do so according to our law).

2) I work for OJSC Sibirtelecom

Thus I DO HAVE access to the data base of our customers and I CAN indetify their location (if you give me their IP).

BUT I WILL NEVER DO THIS UNLESS I'M ASKED FOR THIS BY MY SUPERIORS. Because when they hired me, I signed a paper that I will never reveal any commercial info to the outsiders.

If Estonian ISP, Estonian secret service, FBI, CIA, the Martians or anyone else will ask for that, I'll just say - FOF. Simple as that.
When FSB is asking about the same - it's a different case, of course.

[Pekka]

"1) I'm thier customer and they are my provider. We signed a contract, which clearly says they won't do this, unless if FSB will ask for that (or other secret servisec that have a right to do so according to our law)."

Unless you break their terms and they have a clause for that kind of situation. Again, it doesn't matter what the customer wants if there is a case of abuse and it has been determined before what kind of measures can be taken by the ISP itself.

"2) I work for OJSC Sibirtelecom"

Well, I'll guess they'll call you first or at least give you a heads up

"You tracted my IP, found the name of my ISP (OJSC Sibirtelecom) and the latitude and longitude of my IPS not me, goddamnit! To find my location you have to connect with my ISP - OJSC Sibirtelecom"

Are you doing this on purpose, or do you not realize that many IPs of institutions are tied to their physical localities and as such are pretty public knowledge? Not normal customers of course, but that said, some are, like govt IPs often are.

And of course it doesn't matter at that point, if you get govt IPs, well.... like I said, they either originate from them or are used as third parties, in which case the govt machines were hacked, and then you have a serious problem.

And yes, you can say and shout as loud as you want about ISPs not giving information. They can give it, if the terms of use have been violated, if they have such clause. Most ISPs have that clause. Please, don't go back to 'but they won't give it!!'. This is how many companies make their money, they contact ISPs and tell them that attack has been launched using their network, and if they have terms of use that determines network abuse and that they have the right to defend their own network (yes, defend), the network they sometimes own, as in their property, then yes, they can give the info. This is how traces are done many times. YOu can just not believe this but.... that's your business.

[Pekka]

And don't get me wrong. Your company might have a policy of not giving any info to anyone except secret service, even if their network has been abused. If they've made that choice, then you know, then they won't give that info. I'm not saying YOUR company necessarily would give info.

This is generally often the practice these days though.

[Pekka]

Aaah wait. It seems that we've been kind of arguing about a different thing, I mean not a lot, but a little. I think my statements still holds But you are not a raving loonie anymore.

But yeah, basically it's enough if the IPs are govt IPs to say that the attack was launched from govt computers. Yes? If not, then those govt computers were used by a 3rd party in the attack, and that's a big and serious problem for the govt and they need to do some serious work to secure their networks.

[Drogue]

Originally posted by VetLegion

More than a quarter of Estonia's 1.3m people are ethnically Russian, and speak the language.

However, half of them do not have Estonian citizenship.

On what basis are they Estonian? If they don't have citizenship, surely they aren't part of Estonia's 1.3m people?

[Saras]

They are illegal settlers in occupied territories and should be deported in a civil manner or put up and shut up.

[Serb]

Racist.

[Serb]

Originally posted by lord of the mark


Whiskey Tango Foxtrot?

I was just letting our Finnish friend know that beer at the movies isnt that rare outside of Finland, how did I say anything about Russia?

I'm sorry. I was a bit high and misunderstood your statement. I'm an

What is a "G-d's country"?
The Grand Devil's country?

[Serb]

Originally posted by Drogue

On what basis are they Estonian? If they don't have citizenship, surely they aren't part of Estonia's 1.3m people?

They were born in Estonia before it gained its independence in 1991.

[Serb]

Originally posted by Saras
They are illegal settlers in occupied territories and should be deported in a civil manner or put up and shut up.

Fine, but first deport in a civil manner all illegal Albanian settlers from Kosovo and return this land to its rightful owners - Serbs.