Russia to temporarily withdraw from Treaty on Conventional Forces in Europe

[Lancer]

Originally posted by Serb


It would be true only in case if Russia and NATO will have a common enemy (like China or Martians or whatever). Germany, US and the rest of the NATO had the common enemy - USSR. That's why Germany was allowed in, not because they started to play nice.

Sure, NATO needed West Germany to share the load, that's true. However, even if the martians invade Russia won't be allowed in until they can play nice. That's not to say we couldn't cooperate to air out the green guys because the enemy of my enemy isn't my friend but we can still form an alliance of convenience. Germany in NATO is not an alliance of convenience vs Russia. It's a friendship based on freedom vs anyone who threatens that freedom. On a good day anyway.

[Saras]

Originally posted by Serb

Not exactly a fight, but correction of your (and most of the westerners) delusions.

Look, no one cares enough to be arsed to check figures. The last nominal gdp figures i had in my head were 2005, and I was close enough for my point.

And your insecurity complex (zomfg wester delusions about teh mrother Rsuusia!!!1!) is lol.

[Serb]

Originally posted by Lancer


Sure, NATO needed West Germany to share the load, that's true. However, even if the martians invade Russia won't be allowed in until they can play nice. That's not to say we couldn't cooperate to air out the green guys because the enemy of my enemy isn't my friend but we can still form an alliance of convenience. Germany in NATO is not an alliance of convenience vs Russia. It's a friendship based on freedom vs anyone who threatens that freedom. On a good day anyway.

1) It all depends on what do you mean by "freedom".
USSR had its own vision of what freedom is. So it's nothing more than semantics.

2) Sure if the martians will invade Russia we won't be allowed in NATO. The only possible scenario when we will be allowed in, it's when NATO will need Russia to fight a much dangerous enemy than Russia itself. Period.

[Saras]

Originally posted by Serb


1) It all depends on what do you mean by "freedom".
USSR had its own vision of what freedom is. So it's nothing more than semantics.

War is Peace; Freedom is Slavery; Ignorance is Strength.

[Dinner]

This all has a lot to do with Russia's inferiority complex since the death of the USSR and Russia's desire to pretend it is still more then a regional power. Economically, politically, and militarially it is nothing more then a regional power which happens to have some aging ICBMs which they can't use due to MAD. They're not a major manufacturer and instead their economy is primarially based upon the export of raw materials so Russia's main leverage is to deny people raw materials but this only works in the short run because once Russia proves to be an unreliable supplier everyone looks for alternatives. There are always alternatives.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Serb

Besides, I can't see how GDP of two countries can be compared other by PPP.

In Russia I can buy more goods and services for 100 USD, than in Netherlands or US.

Stolen goods are cheap to sell.

Russia's property laws are a factor in PPP numbers, and even then Brazil seems to be out PPPing mother Russia.

Hmmm....

[Serb]

Originally posted by Saras


Look, no one cares enough to be arsed to check figures.

Really?
I though you are an expert.

The last nominal gdp figures i had in my head were 2005, and I was close enough for my point.

1) Not close enough, even for 2005.
2) Nominal GDP do not reflect the real picture and if you are familiar with prices in Russia and Lithuania, Netheralnds or the rest of EU, you SHOULD know that.

And your insecurity complex (zomfg wester delusions about teh mrother Rsuusia!!!1!) is lol.

Not so LOLish as you think. You at least know Russia a bit the guys from Denmark, US and most of the polytubies, really have no idea what they are talking about (in regard to Russia).

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Serb


1) It all depends on what do you mean by "freedom".
USSR had its own vision of what freedom is. So it's nothing more than semantics.

Four legs good. Two legs bad.

2) Sure if the martians will invade Russia we won't be allowed in NATO. The only possible scenario when we will be allowed in, it's when NATO will need Russia to fight a much dangerous enemy than Russian itself. Period.

Russia would be in in a New York minute if Russia gave noone in Europe a reason to keep them out.

[Serb]

Originally posted by Saras


War is Peace; Freedom is Slavery; Ignorance is Strength.

Yeah, something like that.

[notyoueither]

Why keep Russia out of NATO?

Russia is a European power that shares history with most NATO members and Russians share many values with the citizens of NATO countries. Some of us have been allies with Russia in the past. Some more than once.

Why keep Russia out of NATO? Hmmm... could it be because many are not convinced that Russia would be happy with the cornerstone of NATO? Russia would have to accept that her borders are done. Fixed. There's no going back to the Carpathians, or the Elbe... Oh, and you don't threaten allies, nor do you turn off the gas taps in the middle of winter (even if we would like to see people in Chicago freeze in the dark; what? we would like to do that to Ontario and say we would, but we don't actually do it).

When Putin is reacting to a missile base in Poland like Russia is threatened, and pointing missiles at any and everyone, the chances of Russia joining NATO any time soon are smaller than slim.

[Ecthy]

What I like more is Serb's whining. Now we know why he keeps boasting about Russia so much, it's all about inferiority.

[Serb]

Originally posted by Ecthy
What I like more is Serb's winning.

I have to agree with that.

[Serb]

dp

[Serb]

Originally posted by Ecthy
it's all about inferiority.

Jawohl, mein Übermensch Gebieter!

[Serb]

Originally posted by notyoueither
Why keep Russia out of NATO?

Because of the nature of NATO.

The rest is blah-blah-blah...