Russia to temporarily withdraw from Treaty on Conventional Forces in Europe

[Serb]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
What was the economy like Serb? These problems you complain about didn't appear overnight.

Surely, but collapse of the country (thus collapse of the economic ties) just brings more problems.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Serb

Fair enough.
I want to hear an opinion of an unemployed Pole!

edited: Heresson doesn't count. He is a student who is in Syria now. At least I hope so

Fine. I want to hear the opinion of a Russian, and not a resident of Siberia, but a victim of it.

[Serb]

Originally posted by Lancer
Russia should quit playing as the Mongols and join NATO too.

Don't make me laugh. You perfectly know that we will never be accepted as NATO member. If Russia will join NATO, NATO lose its purpose and any reason to exist.


NATO is an anti-Russian alliance. Simple as that.

[Serb]

Originally posted by notyoueither


Fine. I want to hear the opinion of a Russian, and not a resident of Siberia, but a victim of it.

What to you mean?
I am a Russian who lives in Siberia, which is the Russian soil.

[Lancer]

Not so! NATO is an alliance of anti aggressors. If Russia starts playing nice they'll be allowed in.

[Serb]

Russia will never be allowed in.

[Lancer]

Why not? Germany is in.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Serb


Don't make me laugh. You perfectly know that we will never be accepted as NATO member. If Russia will join NATO, NATO lose its purpose and any reason to exist.

NATO is an anti-Russian alliance. Simple as that.

The only time it's collective defence provisions have been triggered has been to beat on Muslims. You should be in favour of that.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Serb


What to you mean?
I am a Russian who lives in Siberia, which is the Russian soil.

I mean a convict if you can find one alive, not a resident of a nice city.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Serb
Russia will never be allowed in.

Originally posted by Lancer
Why not? Germany is in.

Indeed. Never is a long time.

[notyoueither]

I would say Russia would never be allowed in so long as her motivations could be correctly deduced as subversion from within.

Russians (not just their government) have a lot of miles to go before joining NATO or the EU could be beneficial to all concerned.

To begin with, they will have to learn that 'beneficial to all concerned' is a desirable goal in making alliances.

[Lancer]

Right.

Once you stop trying to bury people they like you alot better.

[Serb]

Originally posted by notyoueither


If you mean the system of government of the USSR and it's organization of economy can be distinguished, that is an interesting argument. I doubt very much if they could be seperated short of a calamity though.

Once again - the late Soviet economy was bad. And it surely needed some reforms. But desintegration of the country made situation even worse. That's my point.

Take the PRC for example. For them to reform and leave the centrally planned economy behind it only took the disitegration of the Soviet Empire and then the Soviet Union itself to deliver the message not only that it didn't work, but to show the leadership where it ended up if they clung too long to ideas long worthy of a good burial.

Excellent example.
Now imagine what USSR could be now, if there were a Chinese-like reforms in 1980-90's.
Unfortunatelly, unlike China, we had traitors in charge back then and didn't have an example of disaster (a Soviet Union collapse, I mean).

[notyoueither]

Dictatorships backed by armies don't change because something might happen.

The PRC changed because they had the Soviet example to put the fear of ancestors into them.

A system like the Soviet or PRC does not reform without a major calamity to drive them. For the PRC, the Soviets were the calamity. The Soviets had no such example.

It's like asking the first victim of lung cancer to stop smoking because of the health effects. What effects?

[Heresson]

Originally posted by Serb

Fine. But when we decide that we should stop subsidize the hostile regimes of Ukraine and Georgia and strat to sell them our gas for market prices, when we decide that Poland and Czechia should be a targets for our ICBMs and cruise missiles, in case if your military hardware will be installed there, then you SHOULD ACCEPT our desicions, becuse Russia is the SOVERIGN, INDEPENDENT COUNTRY.

So Ukraine and Georgia should play with Russia only, or Russia will punish them. Existance of foreign military infrastructure, not directed against Russia, or belonging to NATO or UE is not per se something directed against Russia, unlike raising oil prices by 200%, or making some country target for own military equipment.

Also, You did turn Georgia against You yourselves by supporting separatisms inside it.

Originally posted by Serb

Fair enough.
I want to hear an opinion of an unemployed Pole!

edited: Heresson doesn't count. He is a student who is in Syria now. At least I hope so

No, I'm in Poland now.