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  • Venezuela’s Poor 33% Richer Thanks to Social Programs

    Here you go Flubber. They can't move to Alberta, but their quality of life has improved quite a bit in the short run. They can't do anything to have what you have and Chavez can't do it for them either, but this is better than what they had before.

    “Demographic Pulse 2004,” as the report is entitled is a retrospective of the past five decades on the occasion of Datos I. R’s fiftieth anniversary in Venezuela. It was initially given as a presentation to the “Social Perspectives 2005” conference organized by the Venezuelan-American Chamber of Commerce (Venamcham) last March.

    Since 1984, according to the report, the number of poorest Venezuelans has increased, from 40 to 58 per cent; while the number of middle- and upper-class Venezuelans has decreased drastically from 28 to 4 per cent. Whereas the period from 1964-84 was characterized by a large middle-class, with significant upward mobility for working-class Venezuelans, 1984-2004 has proven to be the opposite [see figure 1]. Unemployment has risen 53 per cent in Venezuela over the past three decades.

    Venezuelans in the top economic category, known as “ABC” now represent a mere 1 million Venezuelans (4 per cent), while those in the bottom two categories “D” and “E” make up 21 million, of a total Venezuelan population of 25 million (84 per cent) (see figure 2).

    But while those Venezuelans still fortunate enough to be members of the ABC category can consider themselves lucky, they have not been immune to the broader economic downturn over the past two decades. Though Venezuela’s economy grew 7.9 per cent in the first quarter of 2005, relative to the first quarter of the previous year, and inflation was only 4.7 per cent according to Venezuela’s Central Bank, the tiny elite of the ABC classes’ purchasing power has declined.

    “These people’s shopping list is larger and includes imported products,” says Datos president Edmond J. Saade, “they have maintenance costs for their cars, their houses, their children study in private schools, they pay for medical services, they go on vacation, to restaurants, they invest more in their personal appearances,” as well as other costs not accounted for in the Central Bank’s inflation figures, said Saade.

    For the 84 per cent of Venezuelans in classes D and E, on the other hand, conditions have improved markedly. According to Datos, their income has increased 53 per cent in the last year-an improvement of 33 per cent after accounting for inflation.

    Government social programs known as “missions” provide free and accessible education from basic literacy to university; Cuban doctors administer free health clinics in the country’s working-class and poor neighborhoods; subsidized markets located all over the country provide Venezuelans with basic necessities as much as 50 per cent below market cost.

    These missions represent a significant increase in Class E’s income, and are the reason their situation has improved says Saade.

    .
    I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
    - Justice Brett Kavanaugh

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Flubber
      So which perceptions exactly are so screwed up?
      How the world works. You seem to have this idea that everyone can eat filet minot.
      I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
      - Justice Brett Kavanaugh

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Flubber


        so buying goods and services or building better houses won't make his people better off -- Please explain since I find the idea that more money cannot help alleviate the consequences of poverty to be ludicrous
        Because he's already going that. There's only so much you can do in the short run.




        Show me where I ever started making things about that. I talked generally about favorable labour market conditions and responded politely to your shot about my bank account and pigdog capitalism
        Come on I was just bantering with you. For your information I moved to a better job market. It really doesn't have anything to do with what we are talking about. I may or may not get a better job, but that's not going to mean anything.
        I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
        - Justice Brett Kavanaugh

        Comment


        • Re: Venezuela’s Poor 33% Richer Thanks to Social Programs

          Originally posted by Kidicious
          Here you go Flubber. They can't move to Alberta, but their quality of life has improved quite a bit in the short run. They can't do anything to have what you have and Chavez can't do it for them either, but this is better than what they had before.
          I see no reason to deny or dispute anything in the article. Its obvious that Chavez has redistributive policies so nothing there surprises me. But the money speny giving fuel to Londoner's could have funded even more doctors, teachers, books and houses could it not? Or are you going to tell me the slums of Caracas are NOT poverty-stricken hellholes even today
          You don't get to 300 losses without being a pretty exceptional goaltender.-- Ben Kenobi speaking of Roberto Luongo

          Comment


          • yay

            Originally posted by Kidicious



            Come on I was just bantering with you. For your information I moved to a better job market. It really doesn't have anything to do with what we are talking about. I may or may not get a better job, but that's not going to mean anything.
            Exactly-- just as my personal situation or any one individual's situation is irrelevant. But the situation of whole groups of workers is relevant in talking about how a capitalist system can work.

            Something we can agree on! yay
            You don't get to 300 losses without being a pretty exceptional goaltender.-- Ben Kenobi speaking of Roberto Luongo

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Kidicious


              How the world works. You seem to have this idea that everyone can eat filet minot.

              Can everyone? yes of course-- its only a part of a cow after all

              Will everyone? Absolutely not due to poverty or other reasons
              You don't get to 300 losses without being a pretty exceptional goaltender.-- Ben Kenobi speaking of Roberto Luongo

              Comment


              • Re: Re: Venezuela’s Poor 33% Richer Thanks to Social Programs

                Originally posted by Flubber


                I see no reason to deny or dispute anything in the article. Its obvious that Chavez has redistributive policies so nothing there surprises me. But the money speny giving fuel to Londoner's could have funded even more doctors, teachers, books and houses could it not? Or are you going to tell me the slums of Caracas are NOT poverty-stricken hellholes even today
                I don't know, but I don't think it's irrational to spend money on energy for poor people around the world especially in the UK and US. There are benefits from it.
                I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
                - Justice Brett Kavanaugh

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Flubber



                  Can everyone? yes of course-- its only a part of a cow after all

                  Will everyone? Absolutely not due to poverty or other reasons
                  Poverty is a reality of capitalism. It's not because people are doing something wrong. It's because capitalism can not exist without poverty, or at least there has to be inequality.
                  I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
                  - Justice Brett Kavanaugh

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Kidicious


                    Poverty is a reality of capitalism. It's not because people are doing something wrong. It's because capitalism can not exist without poverty, or at least there has to be inequality.

                    I dispute the necessity of poverty but accept the reality of inequality. If we free people to earn more or less according to their own skills, work and abilities, inequalities will always exist. The burger flipper will NEVER be valued the same as the surgeon
                    You don't get to 300 losses without being a pretty exceptional goaltender.-- Ben Kenobi speaking of Roberto Luongo

                    Comment


                    • Venezuela’s Poor 33% Richer Thanks to Social Programs

                      Could instead have read

                      Venezuela's Poor 34% Richer Thanks to Social Programs

                      except that extra 1% went to subsidize people outside of Venezuela
                      “It is no use trying to 'see through' first principles. If you see through everything, then everything is transparent. But a wholly transparent world is an invisible world. To 'see through' all things is the same as not to see.”

                      ― C.S. Lewis, The Abolition of Man

                      Comment


                      • I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
                        - Justice Brett Kavanaugh

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Flubber



                          I dispute the necessity of poverty but accept the reality of inequality. If we free people to earn more or less according to their own skills, work and abilities, inequalities will always exist. The burger flipper will NEVER be valued the same as the surgeon
                          There's that and then there's the way that capitalism distributes resources by excluding people from obtaining them.
                          I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
                          - Justice Brett Kavanaugh

                          Comment


                          • Re: Venezuela’s Poor 33% Richer Thanks to Social Programs

                            Originally posted by pchang
                            Could instead have read

                            Venezuela's Poor 34% Richer Thanks to Social Programs

                            except that extra 1% went to subsidize people outside of Venezuela
                            Oh and we shouldn't credit Chavez too much-- the additional revenues are largely because of the oil price spike-- Those capitalist governments in North America are still posting record surpluses which can be spent on social programs
                            You don't get to 300 losses without being a pretty exceptional goaltender.-- Ben Kenobi speaking of Roberto Luongo

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Kidicious


                              There's that and then there's the way that capitalism distributes resources by excluding people from obtaining them.

                              There you go again-- Here we were having a decent chat and then you have to go all "commie" all of a sudden
                              You don't get to 300 losses without being a pretty exceptional goaltender.-- Ben Kenobi speaking of Roberto Luongo

                              Comment


                              • Re: Venezuela’s Poor 33% Richer Thanks to Social Programs

                                Originally posted by pchang
                                Could instead have read

                                Venezuela's Poor 34% Richer Thanks to Social Programs

                                except that extra 1% went to subsidize people outside of Venezuela
                                Obviously, I pulled that 1% out of my ass. If we replace that 1% with x%, what x would it take for Kid to stop

                                What is the real value for x?
                                “It is no use trying to 'see through' first principles. If you see through everything, then everything is transparent. But a wholly transparent world is an invisible world. To 'see through' all things is the same as not to see.”

                                ― C.S. Lewis, The Abolition of Man

                                Comment

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