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  • #91
    A mormon idiot?

    Several of Smith's disaffected associates in Nauvoo joined together to publish a newspaper called the Nauvoo Expositor. Its first and only issue was published 7 June 1844. The paper was highly antagonistic towards Smith, expounding many beliefs critical of him, and outlining several grievances against him.

    The publication of this material disturbed many of Nauvoo's citizens, and the city council, headed by Joseph Smith as a mayor, responded by passing an ordinance declaring the newspaper a public nuisance designed to promote violence against Smith and his followers [13]. Under the council's new ordinance, Smith, as Nauvoo's mayor, in conjunction with the city council, ordered the city marshal to destroy the paper and the press on June 10, 1844.[14]

    This action was seen by many non-Mormons as illegal and Smith was accused of violating freedom of the press. Violent threats were made against Smith and the Mormon community. Charges were brought against Smith and he submitted to incarceration in Carthage, the Hancock County seat. Smith's brother, Hyrum, and eight of his associates including John Taylor and Willard Richards, accompanied him to the jail.[15] The Governor of the state, Thomas Ford, had promised protection and a fair trial.[16] All of Smith's associates left the jail, except Richards and Taylor. Those in jail were not held in the 1st floor jail cell because the jailer felt that that was unsafe, instead, they were held in the jailer's room on the 2nd floor.

    Shortly after 5:00 p.m. on 27 June 1844, a mob of about 200 men stormed the jail, and went to where Smith and his associates were imprisoned. Although they attempted to hold the doorway against the mob, the mobbers opened fire through the still-closed door. Joseph Smith had a six shooter and reportedly killed two members of the mob. Hyrum Smith died immediately, shot in the face. Taylor was shot several times, but survived. One of the bullets hit his pocket watch, which saved his life. Richards was unharmed. Smith ran to the open window, where he was shot multiple times simultaneously, and fell from the window, dead. Upon falling to the ground, he was shot several more times.[17] Mormons view his death as a martyrdom.


    12-17-10 Mohamed Bouazizi NEVER FORGET
    Stadtluft Macht Frei
    Killing it is the new killing it
    Ultima Ratio Regum

    Comment


    • #92
      Originally posted by KrazyHorse
      A mormon idiot?
      Yes, I'm familiar with the Expositor. The city council deliberated for days about whether or not to destroy the press, but determined that since the Expositor was libelous it was a public nuisance.

      Legal Opinions and Analyses

      Apart from its ethical implications, there has been some debate about whether the destruction of the Nauvoo Expositor was legal. At the time, the United States Constitution did not prohibit states and localities from infringing the freedom of the press. This First Amendment protection only applied to the federal government, until the Fourteenth Amendment of the United States Constitution was enacted in 1868, and U.S. courts did not consistently enforce the First Amendment against states and localities until about 1931.

      Thus, whether or not the destruction of the press was legal depends primarily on the laws of the state of Illinois, and the Nauvoo Charter. Among the rights enacted in the 1818 Constitution of Illinois were a prohibition against ex post facto laws (VIII.16) and a provision for the freedom of the press (VIII.22). It is not clear whether the city of Nauvoo's actions against the Expositor violated the Nauvoo constitution's freedom-of-press provision. This provision read as follows:

      "22. The printing presses shall be free to every person, who undertakes to examine the proceedings of the general assembly or of any branch of government; and no law shall ever be made to restrain the right thereof. The free communication of thoughts and opinions is one of the invaluable rights of man, and every citizen may freely speak, write, and print on any subject, being responsible for the abuse of that liberty.

      "23. In prosecutions for the publication of papers investigating the official conduct of officers, or of men acting in a public capacity, or where the matter published is proper for public information, the truth thereof may be given in evidence. And in all indictments for libels, the jury shall have the right of determining both the law and the fact, under the direction of the court as in other cases." (Art. VIII, cl. 22–23).

      One Mormon legal scholar Dallin H. Oaks has addressed the issue, and concluded that the destruction of the press was permissible under Illinois constitutional law, as it was applied in the 1840s, on the basis that the Expositor may have been seen at the time as committing libel, or as being a public nuisance. [citation needed]

      It is also unclear whether the destruction violated Illinois' prohibition against ex post facto laws. On the one hand, the city of Nauvoo was applying a nuisance ordinance that existed before the Expositor went to press. On the other hand, it is open to debate whether the actions of the Expositor were clearly within the purview of that ordinance. Even without an ordinance, however, the city of Nauvoo could have relied upon the long-existing common law doctrines of nuisance and libel. The city might also have acted under the common law doctrine of eminent domain, which allows the government to take private property for public use. Such a taking, however, would have required, under the Illinois "Takings Clause", that the taking be approved by the Illinois general assembly, and that just compensation be given. (Art. VIII, clause 11).
      The Apolytoner formerly known as Alexander01
      "God has given no greater spur to victory than contempt of death." - Hannibal Barca, c. 218 B.C.
      "We can legislate until doomsday but that will not make men righteous." - George Albert Smith, A.D. 1949
      The Kingdom of Jerusalem: Chronicles of the Golden Cross - a Crusader Kings After Action Report

      Comment


      • #93


        What a load of horse hockey.

        A mayor and city council decide a newspaper is libelous for criticisms it prints of them and they order law enforcement to shut it down. It's a pathetic example of political power being used to silence opposition. The story of Joseph Smith should ashame anybody stupid enough to call themselves Mormon.
        12-17-10 Mohamed Bouazizi NEVER FORGET
        Stadtluft Macht Frei
        Killing it is the new killing it
        Ultima Ratio Regum

        Comment


        • #94
          The fact that idiots are willing to continue subscribing to the belief system of a charlatan as obvious as Smith is superceded in silliness only by the popularity of Scientology.
          12-17-10 Mohamed Bouazizi NEVER FORGET
          Stadtluft Macht Frei
          Killing it is the new killing it
          Ultima Ratio Regum

          Comment


          • #95
            Originally posted by KrazyHorse


            What a load of horse hockey.

            A mayor and city council decide a newspaper is libelous for criticisms it prints of them and they order law enforcement to shut it down. It's a pathetic example of political power being used to silence opposition. The story of Joseph Smith should ashame anybody stupid enough to call themselves Mormon.
            Well it did advocate the murder of Joseph Smith, and the publishers of the paper were complicit IN his murder.

            But let's not hijack this thread further, eh?
            The Apolytoner formerly known as Alexander01
            "God has given no greater spur to victory than contempt of death." - Hannibal Barca, c. 218 B.C.
            "We can legislate until doomsday but that will not make men righteous." - George Albert Smith, A.D. 1949
            The Kingdom of Jerusalem: Chronicles of the Golden Cross - a Crusader Kings After Action Report

            Comment


            • #96
              Originally posted by Alexander01


              Well it did advocate the murder of Joseph Smith
              Where?
              12-17-10 Mohamed Bouazizi NEVER FORGET
              Stadtluft Macht Frei
              Killing it is the new killing it
              Ultima Ratio Regum

              Comment


              • #97
                But let's not hijack this thread further, eh?


                No, let's.
                12-17-10 Mohamed Bouazizi NEVER FORGET
                Stadtluft Macht Frei
                Killing it is the new killing it
                Ultima Ratio Regum

                Comment


                • #98
                  Originally posted by KrazyHorse
                  But let's not hijack this thread further, eh?


                  No, let's.
                  I won't have a serious debate with anyone who insults people he disagrees with.
                  The Apolytoner formerly known as Alexander01
                  "God has given no greater spur to victory than contempt of death." - Hannibal Barca, c. 218 B.C.
                  "We can legislate until doomsday but that will not make men righteous." - George Albert Smith, A.D. 1949
                  The Kingdom of Jerusalem: Chronicles of the Golden Cross - a Crusader Kings After Action Report

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    Originally posted by KrazyHorse
                    I guess 33% isn't that awful for a silly Jew.
                    Whatever. I just copied the names in Dr. Strangelove's post, assuming there are all apostles. Paul obviously isn't one, but you have to think to reach that conclusion, something which I had no intention of doing.

                    Anyway, anglicizing is stupid. The guy was names Shaul, get used to it.
                    "Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master" - Commissioner Pravin Lal.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Alexander01
                      I won't have a serious debate with anyone who insults people he disagrees with.
                      *****.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Eli


                        Whatever. I just copied the names in Dr. Strangelove's post, assuming there are all apostles. Paul obviously isn't one, but you have to think to reach that conclusion, something which I had no intention of doing.

                        Anyway, anglicizing is stupid. The guy was names Shaul, get used to it.
                        Don't forget about St. Stephen.

                        He was the first martyr, but he was not an apostle.
                        12-17-10 Mohamed Bouazizi NEVER FORGET
                        Stadtluft Macht Frei
                        Killing it is the new killing it
                        Ultima Ratio Regum

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by KrazyHorse
                          But let's not hijack this thread further, eh?


                          No, let's.
                          As far as I understand, this thread is devoted to historical figures who have personally sacrificed themselves for a cause. From what I have read, it is apparent that Smith's life was prematurely ended by his devotion to his cause/religion. This seems to fit the criteria of the thread; whether or not we each believe every cause mentioned to be right is not the discussion, nor should this be a punting ground for insults.

                          So onto the original intent of this thread, my picks are:

                          George Washington
                          Martin Luther King Jr.
                          William Tyndale
                          Joan of Arc
                          Nelson Mandela
                          In the beginning the Universe was created. This made a lot of people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move. - Douglas Adams

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Alexander01


                            I won't have a serious debate with anyone who insults people he disagrees with.
                            What a convenient excuse to avoid discussing the fact that the faith you evidently profess is based upon the transparently fraudulent writings of a man so obviously flawed.

                            *****.
                            12-17-10 Mohamed Bouazizi NEVER FORGET
                            Stadtluft Macht Frei
                            Killing it is the new killing it
                            Ultima Ratio Regum

                            Comment


                            • God. Even drunk, I'm devastating.
                              12-17-10 Mohamed Bouazizi NEVER FORGET
                              Stadtluft Macht Frei
                              Killing it is the new killing it
                              Ultima Ratio Regum

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by KrazyHorse


                                Don't forget about St. Stephen.

                                He was the first martyr, but he was not an apostle.
                                If we are discussing Judeo-Christian martyrs, (which is difficult due to the lack of specification in the terms of "the first martyr") then I do believe that John the Baptist predeceased Stephen, Paul, and Jesus himself.
                                In the beginning the Universe was created. This made a lot of people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move. - Douglas Adams

                                Comment

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