Personal sacrifice

[Asher]

Originally posted by Winston
*Bump*

I'd expected more interest in this..

Number of nominations considered to be serious, tallied towards entry into the poll so far,

5 - Mahatma Gandhi
2 - Buddha
2 - Jesus of Nazareth
1 - Ayaan Hirsi Ali
1 - Jeanne d'Arc
1 - Acharya Chanakya
1 - Martin Luther King, Jr.
1 - Abraham Lincoln
1 - Mahavir
1 - Nelson Mandela
1 - Mother Teresa
1 - Ronald W. Reagan
1 - Jean-Jacques Rousseau
1 - Anwar Sheikh
1 - Lech Walesa
1 - George Washington

Please give further nominations in bold. Thank you.

You numbskull, you missed mine.

Martin Luther King, Jr.??????????????

[Winston]

Originally posted by Asher
You numbskull, you missed mine.

Well, since it's so tiny, can you really blame a guy?

I guess I could include it as the banana option, if it really means that much to you.

[Straybow]

Another vote for Jesus of Nazareth. My savior!

I add Anwar Sadat to the list, who knew his peace efforts would likely cost his life.

I might think of somebody else.

[Zkribbler]

Originally posted by Straybow
I add Anwar Sadat to the list, who knew his peace efforts would likely cost his life.

Oooooooh. Good one!

[Rufus T. Firefly]

Um, on that Jesus thing:

If Jesus really was the Son of God -- eternal, omniscient, and omnipotent -- then he didn't actually sacrifice anything;
And if he wasn't the Son of God, then his sacrifice didn't accomplish anything.

Feel free to revise your votes accordingly.

My votes go to:
Nelson Mandela
Raoul Wallenberg
Marie Curie (whose scientific research eventually killed her)

[Kuciwalker]

If Jesus really was the Son of God -- eternal, omniscient, and omnipotent -- then he didn't actually sacrifice anything;

I imagine crucifiction hurt like a *****.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker

If Jesus really was the Son of God -- eternal, omniscient, and omnipotent -- then he didn't actually sacrifice anything;

I imagine crucifiction hurt like a *****.

I'd imagine that, if you're an eternal, omniscient deity, it was probably the equivalent of a mosquito bite.

On the other hand, if you're just some poor shlub of a rabbi, then yeah, it hurt. But it didn't accomplish anything.

[Kuciwalker]

The Church seemed to be pretty clear that he suffered

[Aeson]

Originally posted by Rufus T. Firefly
On the other hand, if you're just some poor shlub of a rabbi, then yeah, it hurt. But it didn't accomplish anything.

Well, it did seem to have some effect on the world regardless...

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by Rufus T. Firefly


I'd imagine that, if you're an eternal, omniscient deity, it was probably the equivalent of a mosquito bite.

On the other hand, if you're just some poor shlub of a rabbi, then yeah, it hurt. But it didn't accomplish anything.

But if you are a deity, and set that aside.. then it accomplished something.

You should really read some theology, there has been a lot of discussion on this and your two posts show a lack of thought about the matter.

Also, you don't really understand what was being accomplished, it seems like. The point was:
1. Become human
2. Lead a perfect life
3. Take all the sin of the world
4. Die
5. Be resurrected

Christ didn't raise himself back to life. He was raised back to life by God in heaven. Which is true of all things He did on this earth..

JM

[Gatekeeper]

Earth, for having to put up with humanity.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

Originally posted by Jon Miller


But if you are a deity, and set that aside.. then it accomplished something.

You should really read some theology, there has been a lot of discussion on this and your two posts show a lack of thought about the matter.

Also, you don't really understand what was being accomplished, it seems like. The point was:
1. Become human
2. Lead a perfect life
3. Take all the sin of the world
4. Die
5. Be resurrected

None of that requires sacrifice -- if you're the One True Eternal God of All things.

Christ didn't raise himself back to life. He was raised back to life by God in heaven. Which is true of all things He did on this earth..

JM

Christian theology from the council of Nicea forward has held that Christ is God, God is Christ, and that that has always been true. Indeed, the belief that Christ was merely human while on Earth has repeatedly been held to be a heresy. Thus, Christ did raise himself to heaven. You may believe something different (not that it matters to me; it's all mythology), but that's the mainstream theology.

[Jon Miller]

I don't think you are understanding the theology.

"7but made himself nothing, taking the form of a servant,[a] being born in the likeness of men. 8And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. 9Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name,"

" 18For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:"

While on this earth, Christ was God, but He wasn't being God. If He was being God nothing would make sense... which maybe explains the reason you don't understand Christianity. I mean, really your statements don't make any sense if you had even read the Bible. Ignore what your understanding of Theology tells you, you obviously haven't studied it enough to understand it. Just read the Bible stories.

Jon Miller

[Kuciwalker]

I think Rufus is being a bit silly. Within the theology it's pretty clear Jesus wasn't having a great time.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker
I think Rufus is being a bit silly. Within the theology it's pretty clear Jesus wasn't having a great time.

Well, sure, that's what the Bible says -- and we know how trustworthy and reliable a source that is.

Heck, if we're going to use quasi-fictional accounts of dubious authorship as our basis, I nominate Achilles.