JS Mill, free speech, and creationism/global warming

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten

No, they can't.

What's the point of teaching science in schools at all, then?

There's not much of one, actually. Most people won't use or even remember anything they learn beyond grade 8 math/science and maybe grade 10 english.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Arrian
Debate on the subject is not completely closed off. Therefore, we (or rather the "evolution side") are assuming we are most likely correct.

We've closed off the important forums of debate, the schools and the scientific community.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse


There's not much of one, actually. Most people won't use or even remember anything they learn beyond grade 8 math/science and maybe grade 10 english.

Time better spent on the video simulator errr.... video game.

[Ramo]

Why? If you close off all debate on a subject, you are assuming that you are absolutely correct (that you are infallible). This is obviously false.

No, you close off debate because there's only a finite amount of time in which to educate children, and the academic consensus is probably close to accurate. You're assuming that this is equivalent to infallibility.

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker


University biology departments are concerned with two things, as far as I can tell: preparing people to be doctors and preparing them to be biologists. In either case it's absolutely necessary to teach them the state of the art.

Uhhh...what I mean is, if 75% of people believe that God created the Earth in 6 days and that evolution never happened, then how long will it be until they start basing funding decisions on orthodoxy? Right now we've got common conception fairly in line with scientific consensus on a lot of basic issues by teaching only the consensus in schools to people who have neither the capacity nor the inclination to judge properly for themseles. What happens if that ceases to be the case?

[Drake Tungsten]

There's not much of one, actually. Most people won't use or even remember anything they learn beyond grade 8 math/science and maybe grade 10 english.

Why the **** are we having this argument, then? Let the dumb****s in Kansas teach their kids creationism; the kids won't remember it anyway.

[Last Conformist]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker


We've closed off the important forums of debate, the schools and the scientific community.

The schools aren't a forum of debate, and the scientific community isn't closed.

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker


We've closed off the important forums of debate, the schools and the scientific community.

The scientific community can't be bothered to waste its time with nutbars. We have more important things to worry about.

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten

There's not much of one, actually. Most people won't use or even remember anything they learn beyond grade 8 math/science and maybe grade 10 english.

Why the **** are we having this argument, then? Let the dumb****s in Kansas teach their kids creationism; the kids won't remember it anyway.

I'm worried enough about the long-term effects that I'm unwilling to cede an inch on it.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Last Conformist
The schools aren't a forum of debate, and the scientific community isn't closed.

The schools are very much a forum of debate. This is obvious from the fact that they're being used as such.

[KrazyHorse]

That should read "the schools aren't properly a forum for debate"

[Arrian]

The scientific community can't be bothered to waste its time with nutbars. We have more important things to worry about.

Though if one is so worried about the consequences of ID gaining ground, devoting some time & energy to ripping ID to shreds as publicly as possible might be worthwhile...

-Arrian

[Kuciwalker]

So it boils down to: we are correct, people can't be convinced by logical debate, so we must indoctrinate them with our beliefs so they'll support us in the future.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
That should read "the schools aren't properly a forum for debate"

If you use them to gain advantage for your beliefs over others, you're using them as one.

[KrazyHorse]

Just like the newspapers aren't properly a forum for debate. But at least they aren't being paid for by my taxes, and they don't have a captive audience of children, who are even stupider than the general public.