JS Mill, free speech, and creationism/global warming

[Arrian]

The problem we're using a government soapbox to promulgate a view that we are certain of.

Then can all public education.

-Arrian

[KrazyHorse]

What a bunch of moral relativist tripe.

Not all viewpoints are eqully valid. We try to allow as much latitude as possible in expressing viewpoints which are wildly wrong, but at a certain point reasonable distinctions must be made.

Singing hymns at church is allowed. Flaying your enemies and offering their hearts to Huitzilopochtli is not.

[Arrian]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker


Skokie.

Que?

You're interested in joining a barbershop quartet?

-Arrian

[Kuciwalker]

What a bunch of moral relativist tripe.

Not all viewpoints are eqully valid. We try to allow as much latitude as possible in expressing viewpoints which are wildly wrong, but at a certain point reasonable distinctions must be made.

I agree, but I think that what we're doing may be hurting science and/or education and/or free expression more than it helps.

Singing hymns at church is allowed. Flaying your enemies and offering their hearts to Huitzilopochtli is not.

Strawman. No one's going beyond speech.

[Ramo]

This is a silly argument. If schools shouldn't base their curriculum on academic consensus, what should they base it on?

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Arrian
Que?

You're interested in joining a barbershop quartet?

-Arrian

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Socialist_Party_of_America_v._Village_of_Skokie

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker


I disagree completely.

Then you're an idiot. I shouldn't be prevented from telling people that I have a miracle cure for cancer which is, in fact, rat poison?

Strawman.

Nope. Right on.

The problem is we're using a government soapbox to promulgate a view that we are certain of.

I can't believe those bastards taught me that 2+2 = 4!!!!

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker
[q]What a bunch of moral relativist tripe.

Strawman. No one's going beyond speech.

Speech is not limited to oral communication between two people in earshot of each other.

It is any expression which is intended to make a statement.

[Arrian]

Blues Brothers

As for the analogy you're trying to make, I think it breaks down wrt education. There is free speech on the one hand (very broad), and then there is that which we want to teach our school children.

-Arrian

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Ramo
This is a silly argument. If schools shouldn't base their curriculum on academic consensus, what should they base it on?

I've heard all of these arguments before almost as many times as I've made them myself. The problem is that we're effectively using the schools to combat a widely held ideology. I know that's education, that it's science, but it is predicated on the absolute certainty that we are right and they are wrong.

[Drake Tungsten]

I agree with Kuci.

[Arrian]

Of course you do.

-Arrian

[KrazyHorse]

No, it's predicated on the idea that children should learn what's widely believed due to significant evidence. When they get old enough (if ever) to get it thorugh their skulls that nothing is ever certain, then opposing viewpoints should be taught. Most people never get there.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
Then you're an idiot. I shouldn't be prevented from telling people that I have a miracle cure for cancer which is, in fact, rat poison?

If you sincerely believe it's true, I don't think you could be convicted now anyway. I may misunderstand the state of the law.

Nope. Right on.

Give me an example where they are physically harming people

I can't believe those bastards taught me that 2+2 = 4!!!!

Mill actually noted that math was a peculiarity, since all the evidence is on one side and none on the other...

[Arrian]

The problem is that we're effectively using the schools to combat a widely held ideology.

Not really. The followers of the widely-held ideology see it that way, and are attempting to fight back.

-Arrian