Chavez once again porves he's a tin pot dictator in the making.

[BlackCat]

SuperCitizen

Actually, I understand you, but can't really be pissed of since Pekka lives in the Pekkaverse, wich has no resemblance with the real world.

[Zoid]

Indeed, I just ignore the stupid things he say and concentrate on the funny stuff

[Zkribbler]

Originally posted by Pekka
Chavez needs to go. A bullet in his head is a viable option.

OMG, Pekka is Pat Robertson's DL!

[Grandpa Troll]

What Borat did for Zoid (and my funnybone fer it was one of THE funniest movies I have ever seen and the otherwise undestinguished reputation of Khazistikkhanbarjenia or whereever he was from ......................

[Grandpa Troll]

Woody Allen helped Kuciwalker so maybe he could help Chavez?

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Ned


If B resembles what happened to Cuba, clearly it is not a path any Venesualan would want to take.

It is amazing to me that South America seems to be divided between socialists, who would take their countries into the economic dark ages, and elitist oligarachs who despise the poor and would do nothing for them. There seems to be no middle ground.

Are there no "true" classic liberals to be found south of the United States?

this desoto fellow in Peru is a very articulate voice for more or less classic liberalism. But hes not a politician? Are you talking about pols?

[Pekka]

OMG DID I JUST SAY CHAVEZ SHOULD GO?!

No way! Outrageous! Extra extra, poster on the internet provoked and dip****s got offended.. extra extra, possibly socialist losers crying!!

tech, you are an animal.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara

Originally posted by lord of the mark
First, Venezuala hadnt had a dictator since 1958, when political and social conditions throughout the world were different.

Sorry. When a president (Perez) orders the army to open fire on crowds and 3,000 people are killed, and civil liberties are suspended, you kinda automatically think, dictator.

Third, its ultimately not relevant. Plenty of folks who hated, say Lenin had no trouble with the Tsar. Plenty who hated Hitler had no problems with Stalin. Human pursuit of self interest is normal. It does not change the question of whether A. Chavez IS a dictator or attempting to become one or B. Whether his path, is, objectively, the best one for the poor and middle class people of Venezuala.

But if those are the main voices claiming that Chavez is a dictator, and they are, then it tends to discredit the argument. The same media that calls Chavez an enemy of democracy had no qualms with the temporary government installed by violence that overthrew the elected government of Chavez. They are partisans. Their opinion of Chavvez is about as valid as the right wing GOPs views of the Democratic Party are.

first of all I havent said he IS one, yet. And the voices I listen to for concerns are not right wing partisans in Venezuala, but Human Rights Watch, international groups concerned with freedom of the press. As for Venezualans, I cant always tell which individual has what motivation. I listen to the specifics of their criticisms, as I would with GOP views of the Dem party. Ideologues tend to out themselves by their rhetoric.

I also note concerns by at least on ex-Chavez supporter. That was in the WaPo the other day, dont have a cite handy.

[lord of the mark]

"Venezuelanalysis.com is a project of the Fundación para la Justicia Económica Global"

yeah, that really sounds like a group whos top priority is the developementof accurate figures on oil production

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
He cannot rule by decree. He's not a dictator, anymore than Bush was a dictator simply because the GOP Congress rubber stamped most of his wishes and provided no oversight.

Aside from the whole courts striking down administration policy on various issues thing... has the Venezuelan court system done the same with Chavez's actions?

[techumseh]

Originally posted by Pekka
OMG DID I JUST SAY CHAVEZ SHOULD GO?!

No way! Outrageous! Extra extra, poster on the internet provoked and dip****s got offended.. extra extra, possibly socialist losers crying!!

tech, you are an animal.

OK, sorry I took you seriously.

[Barnabas]

My fave Chavez quote is : "I dream of bathing in a bolivian beach"

:P

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Aside from the whole courts striking down administration policy on various issues thing... has the Venezuelan court system done the same with Chavez's actions?

Has he done something comparable? I don't know. The Venezuelan court system gives me pause, cause they kept trying that bastard Luis Posada Carilles when he would get acquitted for blowing up that Venezuelan plane just to kill some Cubans.

It's a revolution there. Things aren't going to be all nicey nice and settled and perfect according to the American way of doing things. There's a mass movement of millions of Venezuelans pushing things forward. Bourgeois rights aren't going to be respected, because the goal is to abolish the bourgeoisie. The workers are taking over. And they didn't go to the Kennedy School for Government.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara


Has he done something comparable? I don't know. The Venezuelan court system gives me pause, cause they kept trying that bastard Luis Posada Carilles when he would get acquitted for blowing up that Venezuelan plane just to kill some Cubans.

It's a revolution there. Things aren't going to be all nicey nice and settled and perfect according to the American way of doing things. There's a mass movement of millions of Venezuelans pushing things forward. Bourgeois rights aren't going to be respected, because the goal is to abolish the bourgeoisie. The workers are taking over. And they didn't go to the Kennedy School for Government.

Social democrats, in the spirit of Bernstein, Adler, Bauer, etc, dont identify liberal rights as "bourgeois rights" They know that the a dictatorship wont mean power in the hands of the working classes, but in the NAME of the working classes. We've seen that over and over again in the last hundred years. We see it in the very regimes that Chavez professes to admire.

[Imran Siddiqui]

[q=LOTM]They know that the a dictatorship wont mean power in the hands of the working classes, but in the NAME of the working classes. [/q]

Absolutely. The lower classes seem to delight in "their guy" getting in power, but all they do is just make themselves rich and keep talking the talk, but failing in walking the walk.