Chavez once again porves he's a tin pot dictator in the making.

[Gatekeeper]

I've been over it, Che, since communism imploded in 1989. I'm more concerned about right-wing and religious nutcases nowadays. But I see some left-wing nuttiness is spreading again, so, hey, what's old is new again, eh?

Gatekeeper

[Ned]

As Chavez is seeking to nationalize US businesses, probably without compensation, I can only hope the US admin will impose an economic embargo of Venezuala that really hurts. Then we will see how the people react to their commie leader as their economy bites the dust in the name of socialism.

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Ned
As Chavez is seeking to nationalize US businesses, probably without compensation, I can only hope the US admin will impose an economic embargo of Venezuala that really hurts. Then we will see how the people react to their commie leader as their economy bites the dust in the name of socialism.

I just believe in "equal" treatment. If I was the US and American owned stuff was being "nationalized" I'd do the same with respect to any Venezualen asset I could get my hands on,. The US should then sell all those assets to the private sectors and use the proceeds for anti-poverty programs in the US.

Chavez surely couldn't object, could he ??

[chequita guevara]

Actually, Chavez is only moving to nationalize these businesses because he is being pushed into it. Having unleashed the masses in order to solidify his power against those who hated him, he finds the genie does not want to go back in the bottle. The workers have been chomping at the bit to take over the networks for years, and he's been holding them back. And he's said the foreign owners will be compensated.

I met a Venezuelan commie tonight and many other Latino supporters of the revolution. One person brought an Hugo Chavez action figure which plays the Venezuelan national anthem if you press a button on the back.

[Flubber]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Actually, Chavez is only moving to nationalize these businesses because he is being pushed into it. Having unleashed the masses in order to solidify his power against those who hated him, he finds the genie does not want to go back in the bottle. The workers have been chomping at the bit to take over the networks for years, and he's been holding them back.

Given the significant nu8mber of engineers, geologists, geophysicists and petroleum techs that have fled Ven. as a result of his actions, who exactly are the "workers" that he was "holding back" in the petroleum industry.

Also, ownership of commercial enterprises just doesn't seem to me to be a "hot button issue". I could see people rioting over rates of pay, unemployment, general poverty, the price of gasoline, closure of a plant or a host of other things. But I just don't see how, ownership of businesses would resonate with the poor and unskilled that is the Chavez base . . . that is , of course, unless Chavez uses his media control to MAKE it an issue.


So unless you can point at some huge event that brought this issue to the forefront of the people's attention, I call bullcrap on any idea that Chavez was forced into anything


As for compensation . . . ya-- it would be just as if you were visiting Ven. and an officer with 3 armed soldiers asked for your wallet. After extracting the cash he says " I take this in the name of venezuala. As fair compensation we offer thisa popsicle stick. If you do not agree to this transaction we shall begin negotiations at the nearest federal building, which happens to be the local prison. To expedite matters you must remain there until we get to your matter. You can however, leave at any time if you agree to the popsicle stick"

[Flubber]

and I still thinkl if Ven nationaizes stuff, affected nations should dom the same for any and all Venezualen assets inside their own country. I respect the right for a sovereign nation to run itself as it pleases but that doesn't mean that there cannot be consequences from those negatively impacted

[techumseh]

Originally posted by Ned
As Chavez is seeking to nationalize US businesses, probably without compensation, I can only hope the US admin will impose an economic embargo of Venezuala that really hurts. Then we will see how the people react to their commie leader as their economy bites the dust in the name of socialism.

How would that affect the oil exports to the US, Ned?

[Flubber]

Originally posted by techumseh


How would that affect the oil exports to the US, Ned?

NOt a lot of impact . Venezuela would sell elsewhere and the US would buy elsewhere and the biggest result would be slightly longer tanker trips. An embargo on Ven. oil is useless unless it is very widespread. If it worked it could cripple Venezuela but at the cost of an oil price spike

[techumseh]

The ability of the US to find substitute sources is limited. Don't assume Venezuela's production can be entirely replaced. China and/or other customers may well buy more oil from Venezuela if the US won't. I think they would be shooting themselves in the foot.

[Saras]

We need Krazy physicist to tell yet another clueless soul about Adam Smith

[MRT144]

Originally posted by techumseh
The ability of the US to find substitute sources is limited. Don't assume Venezuela's production can be entirely replaced. China and/or other customers may well buy more oil from Venezuela if the US won't. I think they would be shooting themselves in the foot.

so let me get this straight...

whats china get out of sending tankers all the way over to get this oil? more expensive oil? or is venuzuala going to cut their prices, thus their profit, and increase the opportunity cost of selling not selling at market price to america?

[techumseh]

Huh? China is desperate for more oil, in fact they've already signed a large contract with Venezuela. And they're cash rich. Don't forget they hold most of the US foreign debt.

BTW, why would Venezuela sell to the US if the proposition we're debating is a US economic boycott of that country?

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Main Entry: fun·gi·ble
Pronunciation: 'f&n-j&-b&l
Function: adjective
Etymology: New Latin fungibilis, from Latin fungi to perform
: being something (as money or a commodity) one part or quantity of which can be substituted for another of equal value in paying a debt or settling an account (oil, wheat, and lumber are fungible commodities)
Merriam-Webster's Dictionary of Law, © 1996 Merriam-Webster, Inc.

[Flubber]

OO has it right. Oil is a fungible product and as such, a boycott could only affect the Ven. oil industry if it was widespread. If the US boycotted Ven. oil , there would be a momentary blip as the oil flowed a little in different directions and then both sides would continue as before.

Generally, the cost of sending oil by tanker is relatively insignificant. This is why the price for oil is generally common across most of the world. Contrast this with natural gas whee there can be huge regional variations due to transportation and storage costs

[Whoha]

add to all that the fact of refining capacity, their refineries are here in the US, so the oil will have to come here. Not that we'd do anything like that to our guy.