The worst Inquitision.....

[aneeshm]

...happened in India, in Goa. The Spanish Inquisition's death toll is estimated at 30,000. The Goan inquisition, operating in a much smaller area, managed to murder 100,000 thousand Hindus and Jews and Muslims. This same inquisition is the reason why there are no major temples left in Goa today - the Christians razed them and built Churches on them.

People from the priestly caste (my caste) were, during the time of the invasion, killed at sight (they could be distinguished by their hair). We were also crucified if we dared practice our religion. Even keeping a humble tulsi plant was enough to get you killed. Having an idol of your god in your house was enough to get you killed. Jews and Muslims were, of course, driven out or eliminated or converted.

A list of things which were "prohibited" (this makes me sick):

Prohibitions

* Yajnopaveetam ceremony (initiation ceremony for Hindu boys) and other Hindu ceremonies are banned.
* The instruments for Hindu songs cannot be played.
* While giving dowry the relatives of the bride and groom must not be invited to the dwelling.
* At the time of marriage, betel leaf packages (pan) may not be distributed either publicly or in private to the persons present.
* Flowers, or fried puris; betel nuts and leaves cannot be sent to the heads of the houses of the bride or groom.
* Gotrah ceremony of the family God must not be performed.
* On the day prior to a wedding, rice must not be husked, spices must not be pounded, grains must not be ground and Hindu recipes marriage feast must not be cooked.
* Pandals and festoons must not be used.
* Pithi may not be applied.
* The bride will be accorded ceremonial welcome. The bride and groom will not sit under the pandal to convey blessings and best wishes to them.
* The poor must not be fed or ceremonial meals must not be served for the peace of the souls of the dead.
* There should be no fasting on ekadashi day.
* Fasting can only be done according to the Christian principles.
* No rituals should be performed on the twelfth day after death, on moonless and full moon dates.
* No fasting should be done during lunar eclipse.
* Nobody shall bear Hindu names or surnames.

I wonder - do Portuguese textbooks mention all this when they learn history? Do the Europeans have the courage, even today, to examine their behaviour towards others who at that moment of time were weaker than them? European imperialism has convinced me that Christianity as preached by Christ is dead, the Catholic church is desperately trying to do some necromancy on the corpse, and a new, cannibalistic breed which feeds on the corpse of the old Christianity is gaining strength in the protestant parts of the world (ref. Jesus Camp and the like).

[Pekka]

If this came as a surprise to you, I'm sorry. This is common knowledge in Europe. Our education kind of rules

[aneeshm]

I learnt about the Portuguese inquisition in Goa quite recently - our school textbooks are, to be frank, bullsh*t, because they never mention anything bad done by the Muslims or Christians in India, EVER, for fear of "inciting hatred" or "offending minority sentiments"! We were never taught that such an inquisition even existed. I came across it when I read about a book, "Guardian of the Dawn", by a Portuguese author. He says that in Portugal, children are taught that Goa was the "Glorious Capital of the Spice Trade", and nothing about the inquisition.

[Pekka]

Well, then that's your problem. It's quite well known fact, that Christians and Euros have done much stuff in India, and other parts of the world as well.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Re: The worst Inquitision.....

Originally posted by aneeshm
cannibalistic breed which feeds on the corpse of the old Christianity is gaining strength in the protestant parts of the world (ref. Jesus Camp and the like).

Pish posh. Again the favored look the Christian bigots are gaining strength anew. In reality the fasest growing segments of Christianity are the more liberal denominations as evidenced by a growing diversity in worshipper make up. Not so much the fire and brimstoners who want to tar and feather those who are different.


Link

[Elok]

If it makes you feel any better, we didn't do anything to you then that we hadn't been doing to each other a few centuries earlier. More of you suffered, yes, but mostly since there were a lot more of you than there were Jews and Cathars and such in medieval Europe.

[Dinner]

The history of the Catholic Inquisitions are widely taught in the US as well though I can't recall reading about the one in Goa. In the US the Spanish Inquisitor's work in Latin America gets more press as rightly it should. Goa was just 30,000 people where as Latin America's natives were something like 12 million people (after disease killed most of them).

[Arrian]

The Inquisition, let's begin
The Inquisition, look out sin!
We're on a mission
To convert the Jews

Jew-ja-jew-jew-jew-ja-jews!

We're gonna teach 'em, wrong from right
We're gonna make 'em, see the light
And make an offer that they can't refuse

That the Jews just can't refuse

Say yes, don't be dull.
A fact you're ignoring
It's better to lose your skull cap than your skull

oy vey gevalt!

The Inquisition, what a show
The Inquistion, here we go
We know you're wishin' that we'd go away.
But the Inquisition's here and it's here to stay!

Genius!

-Arrian

[LordShiva]

[Zkribbler]

I too had not heard of the Inquisition in Goa.
But I'm not surprised to hear about it.
I am surprised at its fury. Killing priests on sight or killing people for having a plant is extreme even for the Inquisition.

The famed atheist Voltair once quipped that Christianity must be a devine religion because so much evil had been committed in its name, but yet it was still around.

European imperialism has convinced me that Christianity as preached by Christ is dead . . .

Not dead. There are a lot of true Christians out there; but there are even more who merely mouth the words.

What story was it, where Mark Twain had God granting or denying prayers? Basically any prayer for something like "world peace" or "aid in living a more holy life" was denied because God knew the people asking didn't mean it. Prayers from the death or destruction of a business competitor were granted because they were heartfelt.

[C0ckney]

I wonder - do Portuguese textbooks mention all this when they learn history? Do the Europeans have the courage, even today, to examine their behaviour towards others who at that moment of time were weaker than them?

i don't think the deaths of a few indians should take the focus away from portuguese children learning about their empire in the east and the great men who led it.

[Wernazuma III]

Re: The worst Inquitision.....

Originally posted by aneeshm
...happened in India, in Goa. The Spanish Inquisition's death toll is estimated at 30,000. The Goan inquisition, operating in a much smaller area, managed to murder 100,000 thousand Hindus and Jews and Muslims. This same inquisition is the reason why there are no major temples left in Goa today - the Christians razed them and built Churches on them.

Sorry, but your numbers seem to be very biased. The estimates of the death toll by the Spanish Inquisition has been lowered by most scholars from the initial number of 30.000 to 3000-5000, depending on the different studies.
I'm not so firm on the Goa Inquisition but Wikipedia gives 54 death sentences (or 121 as the higher number) over 300 years (!), so the "100,000 thousand " (what's that: 10 millions?) seems to have no base at all and is pure propaganda.
The only correct thing in this paragraph is most probably the destruction of the temples and building of churches on the site - that was common Christian usage of the time, not to allow the practice of other cults.

People from the priestly caste (my caste) were, during the time of the invasion, killed at sight (they could be distinguished by their hair). We were also crucified if we dared practice our religion. Even keeping a humble tulsi plant was enough to get you killed. Having an idol of your god in your house was enough to get you killed. Jews and Muslims were, of course, driven out or eliminated or converted.

Again, complete BS. Crucifiction was no Christian method of putting people to death (remember: the Lord was crucified). This seems to be complete hate propaganda, way off. Contrary to the common picture, an inquisitorial process took extremely long and had a sophisticated practice of evidence, defence, interrogation, torture etc. So, it is absolutely un-inquisitorial to kill someone "at sight" - nothing is more uninquisitorial than that. First hear some people who hate the accused, then hear the accused. When there is contradiciton, torture him. At the end, make him abdicate to his errors or execute. Ordinary Christians have made many massacres throughout history, the inquisition never, it was not their style.

I wonder - do Portuguese textbooks mention all this when they learn history?

They learn about the Inquisition, but they won't buy pathetic lies.

And all you others: you bought those numbers without questioning them. Uh, I forgot, everybody knows how bad the Spanish (and Portuguese for that matter) were, so there's no need to investigate further.

[aneeshm]

That number was a typo. Cut out the thousand in front.

It should read "100,000", not "100,000 thousand".

[Dinner]

I'm afraid this is indeed sounding more and more like Indian nationalist BS.

[Wernazuma III]

Originally posted by Oerdin
The history of the Catholic Inquisitions are widely taught in the US as well though I can't recall reading about the one in Goa. In the US the Spanish Inquisitor's work in Latin America gets more press as rightly it should. Goa was just 30,000 people where as Latin America's natives were something like 12 million people (after disease killed most of them).

More idiocy. The Spanish Inquisition was pretty lax on the American Indian population. Death sentences of the Spanish inquisition were also very few and where they happened, it wasmostly against "judaizantes" and a few selected heretics who were "stubborn" or "serial offenders" who had an inquisitorial process before but "continued in their heresy".
We can discuss the causes of the population decline in Spanish America but the Spanish Inquisition had not the least part in it. The Catholic Church did quite a bit to destroy indigenous cultures, since they couldn't accept their religious dimension, but also cannot be made responsible for mass killings. On the contrary, it was mostly clergymen (not only a few selected, but the majority of bishops too), who kept critizicing the cruelty of Spanish encomenderos and officials against Indians. The Jesuits were protecting the indigenous population heavily, at least in the physical aspect.