Drunken teen stumbles into wrong home

[Asher]

Originally posted by Ming
You might have him pinned to the ground, but that doesn't preclude the person getting his arm loose, pulling a gun or knife and killing you... FACT

Smashing his head on the ground wouldn't preclude the person getting his arm loose, pulling a gun or knife and killing you... FACT.

By your logic, the only reasonable course of action is to murder him to ensure he won't hurt you with a PERCEIVEDTHREAT.

[Flubber]

ASher

You keep assuming that the homeowner os able to immediately accurately and perfect;y asess the situation. Instead he faces a bunch of unknowns. He is faced with one intruder and has no way of knowing if there are more. He has no way of knowing if the intruder has a weapon and the situation is one where your immediate assumption is NOT one of benign intent of the intruder.

If I am CERTAIN there is an intruder, I call the police and barricade myself and my family as best I can. If I just "hear something" I would likely investigate. If I were suddenly faced with someone I would have two instincts-- flee (back toward my family) or attack. I tend to think I would attack.

If I badly hurt the intruder in the first few startled moments --Tough Sh*t.

You don't have to take 2 punches or see the gun or knife or 2nd and 3rd assailants . . . The situation itself is a threat


Other than that I ma with ming on this one. I don't know if he went too far-- I wasn't there but I could easily see how in a scufflle I could end up atop someone and would endup striking there head to the floor repeatedly while they struggled back. If you don't think that ever happens in actively contested fights, you haven't seen many fights. I, for one, am not going to slam the homeowner for winning decisively.

[Asher]

I think that's bull****, and the fact that you two may act the same way doesn't excuse it. But that's just me.

If the guy tries to pull out a gun or a knife, then you've got the right to smash his head into the ground.

The kid has rights too, even though he trespassed, and he has a right not to be assaulted because this guy is scared ****less of a drunken kid he apparently easily pinned.

I don't buy the excuse that your first instinct should be to violently attack somebody either. If you're mugged by a guy, do you attack him because he "might have a gun"?

I didn't think so...

[Flubber]

Oh and Asher-- I agree he sounds like a tool and a fool for opening his trap about all this.

Most of your argument against him are based on his own comments. But thiose comments are in the end IRRELEVENT. The question is only if the force used was reasonable in the circumstances at the time. In assessing that you ONLY use the facts that were known to the homeowner at the time and no more

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Asher


I don't buy the excuse that your first instinct should be to violently attack somebody either. If you're mugged by a guy, do you attack him because he "might have a gun"?

Asher


A couple things-- My first instinct would probably depend on how close the intruder was. If I spotted him when I am at the top of the stairs and he is at the bottom, I would likely flee . . try to barricade myself with my family and call the police. I would absolutely consider the person a threat and the best self defence is to get away.

If an intruder approaches me where my first notice is from a couple of feet, I think I would strike out repeatedly and as best I can. Whether the "approach" was an attack or a drunken lurch, I probably could not assess. I sure as hell am not turning my back on someone just a few feet away. In that situation, if I had a bat or a gun or knife, I would likely use it . . . and while I might regret things later, I believe I would be fully legally justified to do so. The threat to me is potentially deadly

[Chemical Ollie]

I've dismissed drunkards who entered the wrong (unlocked) door more than once, when I was younger and lived in thrashy areas. They were 2-3 times my age. I did not have to use violence, just firm but polite persuation. Give them a helping hand to move on, so to say.

[SlowwHand]

Asher's initial response would be to give up, even if the guy WAS drunk, even if he WAS passed out (which we don't know), and even if he had to wake him up in order to surrender.


Hey! Wake up! I surrender!

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Chemical Ollie
I've dismissed drunkards who entered the wrong (unlocked) door more than once, when I was younger and lived in thrashy areas. They were 2-3 times my age. I did not have to use violence, just firm but polite persuation. Give them a helping hand to move on, so to say.

and I had someone walk into my apartment once who immediately said "wrong unit" and departed. In residence the guys would pretty routinely prank each other

Those scenarios can be quite different

[BlackCat]

A bit of a survivalist thread we have here.

I agree with CO, and that is on a combination of common experience and culture. Burglary of course happens, but when they are caught in action, they don't harm - they run. Therefore, if you meet an intruder, it ususally is a friendly one .

That of course is totally irellevant in areas where violent burglaries is common.

IMHO, what really pisses of most here is the "multiple banging of head into concrete".