Drunken teen stumbles into wrong home

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by SlowwHand
Were I the parent, my anger would be directed first to the parents of the party house,

I doubt any adults were present.

then my son, and then, maybe, at the invaded homeowner

Then you'd be an idiot.

[SlowwHand]

Was it the middle of the night? Were you asleep?

I don't believe you, KH. The fact that a guy who made an asinine remark almost set you off big time says otherwise.
At that event, you weren't sleeping in the middle of the night, and knew what you were dealing with.

[KrazyHorse]

I've been in enough fights to know when to stop, son.

And it's before I'm dribbling somebody's head on the concrete. That's something I've never done. Just like I've never stomped on somebody's head or struck somebody in the throat.

Self-defense is not a carte blanche. If you can't retain control of yourself then you should face the consequences.

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
son.

[Ming]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
I've been in enough fights to know when to stop, son.

And it's before I'm dribbling somebody's head on the concrete. That's something I've never done. Just like I've never stomped on somebody's head or struck somebody in the throat.

Self-defense is not a carte blanche. If you can't retain control of yourself then you should face the consequences.

Have you ever been in a fight in your home, with possibly your wife and child at risk? Maybe this guy would never have stomped on somebody's head or struck somebody in the throat in your more typical situation/fight. But this was a perceived home invasion.
Whether the door was unlocked or not, there was a stranger in their home. We do not know how threatining the situation was.

It very well could be that the guy over reacted... but we really don't know. I'm not going to condemn the guy with out real facts. I'm not going to do so just because he is a blow hard and used to box.

[Asher]

Originally posted by SlowwHand
Was it the middle of the night? Were you asleep?

He was not asleep, Slowwy.

He and his wife were both awake when they heard the noise. In fact they were just outside watching the police down the street dealing with other people. For all we know they left their door wide open as they were outside watching.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Ming
Have you ever been in a fight in your home

This wasn't a fight, it was a beating. All evidence points to the kid not fighting, including the statements of the homeowner.

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Ming


Have you ever been in a fight in your home, with possibly your wife and child at risk? Maybe this guy would never have stomped on somebody's head or struck somebody in the throat in your more typical situation/fight. But this was a perceived home invasion.
Whether the door was unlocked or not, there was a stranger in their home. We do not know how threatining the situation was.

The guy's initial statements tell us that the kid didn't even manage to fight back. The threatening sort of goes out of it once you grab the other guy by the neck and he's unable/unwilling to resist you.

Drag him out the door, drop him on the lawn and turn the hose on him.

Reasonable reaction. You have to look at what sort of danger this 16 year-old could really have posed to a full-grown man who, it sounds like, is in pretty good shape, has experience boxing and is sober. I give the guy credit for the first couple of punches, but drumming the teen's head on the ground while threatening him tells me that he had the situation well in hand by that point.

[Ming]

Originally posted by Asher
For all we know they left their door wide open as they were outside watching.

Now you want to just make some stuff up as long as it helps your point of view

Not fighting and struggling are two different things.
The perceived threat is what's important, and neither you nor I can say we know in reality how the homeowner perceived the threat. It's really easy in hind sight to take your point of view... and while I have no specific point of view since I don't know the facts, I would tend to think that it was probably excessive. But without the facts, I'm not ready to lock myself into a position that could possibly be wrong. If the homeowner perceived a great threat to him and his family, he acted properly. This is a spur of the moment thing... with survival and protection of one's family at stake.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Ming


Now you want to just make some stuff up as long as it helps your point of view

I didn't make it up, it's a distinct possibility. Husband and wife go outside to investigate the commotion and leave the door open. More likely it was closed but unlocked.

Not fighting and struggling are two different things.
The perceived threat is what's important

The perceived threat of a drunken 16 year old pinned to the ground by a 30 year old with boxing training and his wife right next to them?

Give me a break, Ming.

[SlowwHand]

No, Asher. I'll stay here and discuss responsibility and accountability, as that is what this thread involves.

You have no basis for comparison on any of this, other than being a drunken teenager.
You're talking out your ass, in other words.

[Asher]

FWIW, the police are not going to pursue criminal charges against the boy or the man.

The man is still "furious" the boy isn't being charged, and is now whining about how the publicity is hurting his business. This is despite the fact that on his business' website he talks about and links to this story, he invites reporters to his home to take "family pictures" for stories, etc.

[Asher]

Originally posted by SlowwHand
No, Asher. I'll stay here and discuss responsibility and accountability, as that is what this thread involves.

You have no basis for comparison on any of this, other than being a drunken teenager.
You're talking out your ass, in other words.

This thread is about responsbility and accountability for when someone is in your house.

It has nothing to do with hosting house parties.

Sorry, Sloww, the issue here is vigilante justice and not why kids are allowed to have fun.

[Ming]

Originally posted by Asher
The perceived threat of a drunken 16 year old pinned to the ground by a 30 year old with boxing training and his wife right next to them?

Easy for you to say in the light of day with no risk to your loved ones.

The kid could have had a gun or knife... the guy didn't know that. You seem to think it was so obvious at the time... but what if he had stopped and the kid pulled out a gun a shot him? Even a drunk with a weapon can kill or injure somebody.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Asher
FWIW, the police are not going to pursue criminal charges against the boy or the man.

Really? But I thought it was so clear the man was guilty.