Fantasy Hockey - Seed of Chucky

[Asher]

Originally posted by Ninot
Cournoyer was considered one of the fastest forwards in the league.

He's a hall of famer.

He won multiple cups, and was captain of the team for dynastic years in the 70s.

Your point?

My point was that jersey retirements are decided based on that person's contribution to the team. Seeing as neither of you were in Calgary or likely even following Calgary during Vernon's tenure, I don't think you can say what he contributed to this team.

And I know Vernon's not a hall of famer...but he also retired relatively recently, too. He was not eligible until last year, and last year had a big crop...

[Ninot]

There will be plenty of big crops to come. Don't look for him to be inducted anytime soon.

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Asher

I'm sorry, then, that the Flames aren't 75 years old.

The Habs have also retired the likes of Yvan Cournoyer and Howie Morenz anyway.

Hey don't go slamming my Habs-- I'm also a Flames fan but the Habs are sacred

slamming Morenz--thats just daft-- some view him as the best to play the game and he DIED from a hockey injury. IN 1 1998 poll he ranked number 15 in a list of all time players and was the highest pre WW2 forward on that list

Cournoyer?? I grew up watching the 75-79 cup run .. . Any insult to that would require we bring out the duelling pistols

[Asher]

He died from a broken leg...

That's weak.

[Ninot]

lol, Oh Asher.

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Asher

My point was that jersey retirements are decided based on that person's contribution to the team. Seeing as neither of you were in Calgary or likely even following Calgary during Vernon's tenure, I don't think you can say what he contributed to this team.

And I know Vernon's not a hall of famer...but he also retired relatively recently, too. He was not eligible until last year, and last year had a big crop...

True that I wasn't in Calgary at the time but I have followed hockey all my life. I'm not laughing at a Vernon retirement but tio me he just seems to fall slightly short of the calibre I would expect for such a thing

I don't know that I expect Vernon to ever make the Hall of Fame-- maybe he will but to me he just doesn't seem to me to be one of the all-time greats of the game

[Asher]

Originally posted by Ninot
lol, Oh Asher.

In 1932-33, Howie ran into injury problems and his production wasn't as good. He further declined in 1933-34 and now the Montreal Forum fans began to boo their one-time hero. He became frustrated and began resorting to some rough play. Finally, Howie showed up in Leo Dandurand's office in tears

This is the kind of man you guys worship?

Explains a lot about Quebec culture.

[Ninot]

in December 1936 and January 1937, Howie was starting to produce. He scored 4 goals and 16 assists and might be his old self again.Then, tragedy struck.

He had a comeback. Iginla is having 1 this year, isn't he?

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Asher

In 1932-33, Howie ran into injury problems and his production wasn't as good. He further declined in 1933-34 and now the Montreal Forum fans began to boo their one-time hero. He became frustrated and began resorting to some rough play. Finally, Howie showed up in Leo Dandurand's office in tears

This is the kind of man you guys worship?

Explains a lot about Quebec culture.

Now asher-- don't go being all slective with what you quote from wiki. I'm sure you saw the bit where he was #15 all time in a Hockey News poll in 1998 and in 1950 a national poll selected him the top player of the previous half-century

I don't care if he cried or if he wore women's underwear in his spare time-- he was one of the greatest----

Do you think anyone would say that Vernon was the greatest goalie of his decade? Do you even say that ?

[Asher]

Yes, he broke his leg and died. Is that the real reason he got his jersey retired?

That is pretty infamous...

[Ninot]

He also posted some record numbers in his prime

Considered by many old-timers to be the greatest hockey player in hockey history, Howie Morenz was a three-time winner of the Hart Memorial Trophy as the league's most valuable player and a two-time scoring leader (prior to the introduction of the Art Ross Trophy)

And hit like a giant

Even though he was noted for his scoring, he was also an excellent backchecker, and the Canadiens never had to worry about a defensive specialist because Howie was that specialist. Also worth noting is what Charles L. Coleman said of him in The Trail of the Stanley Cup, Vol.II "He bodychecked with the ferrocity of a giant."

[Asher]

Originally posted by Ninot
He had a comeback. Iginla is having 1 this year, isn't he?

He never really went away. He still had good production last year.

Do you think anyone would say that Vernon was the greatest goalie of his decade? Do you even say that ?

Of course not. But I'm not sure what this has to do with a team jersey retirement. The scope of such a thing is to a team.

And Vernon was one of the best goaltenders in the Flames' 26 year history -- second only to Kiprusoff. He's also the main reason why Calgary won its cup and president's trophy.

It makes perfect sense for Calgary to thus retire his jersey, recognizing his contribution to the team. It's a bit high-and-mighty of Habs fans to openly mock this move because their team has greater history.

In fact, that's why I hate the Leafs -- fans like that. It's disappointing Ninot is more like a Leafs fan than I thought.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Ninot
He also posted some record numbers in his prime

Your excerpt says nothing about records.

[Ninot]

Leafs only have like 2 retired jerseys. In my opinion, they should have more, but they go for the weak "honoring" of jerseys. Guys like Sitler, Bower and Horton should deserve more.

I'm fine with any team retiring any jersey, that's ultimately up to the team. But heck, Vernon?

[Asher]

Originally posted by Ninot
I'm fine with any team retiring any jersey, that's ultimately up to the team. But heck, Vernon?

He was before your time, and I don't think you recognize the state of hockey in Calgary when Vernon worked his magic. He was the Kiprusoff of the Flames in the late 80s, and largely a reason why the Flames are still in Calgary.

His impact was more than simply stats, figures, and cups (though they also come into play). Before Vernon the team was a bottom feeder,with Vernon they were a contender. And won. He gave the Flames the confidence (and the attendance) they needed.

His jersey is absolutely a solid candidate for retirement.

Are you just bitter that Vernon's the reason the Flames won the cup at The Forum? Is that what this is about?