The God Delusion

[Cort Haus]

I think PH's claim to have transcended the human condition and achieved perfection and infallibility is not the topic here, though it does shed an interesting light on his position. It sounds like he would like to be a secular Pope.

As Arrian said, it is people that require respect, not religion. We're not talking about fundies who would set fire to you for your beliefs, we all agree about what we think of them. We're talking orn'ry folks who'll never harm you and have their own set of game-rules to live by. If they think you'll go to hell, so what?

[Lorizael]

What? No. God's a buncha hooey.

I don't know you very well, and I'm merely assuming that you delude yourself, but let's see what we can come up with.

To what extent do you 'believe' in science?

[Lorizael]

Actually, screw this; I don't really have the patience to engage in such an activity.

Just ask some of your dearest, closest friends to be painfully honest with you and give you a critique of everything wrong with you.

If you immediately and argumentatively defend yourself without actually giving them a fair chance to explain their position, it is quite likely that you are deluding yourself.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Jon Miller


Look at Christianities claims.

If it succeeds in it's claims, doesn't that suggest truth?

JM

Not to me.

Speaking of truth. My experience is that a preacher told me something at church once that was varifiably false. He had Bible verses to back it up also. Now what does this tell you? Shouldn't you be able to go to church and expect to hear the truth? If you can't get the truth at church what makes you think the Bible is the truth. It was written by a man who claims to speak for God the same way a preacher claims to speak for God.

[Provost Harrison]

[QUOTE] Originally posted by Cort Haus
I think PH's claim to have transcended the human condition and achieved perfection and infallibility is not the topic here, though it does shed an interesting light on his position. It sounds like he would like to be a secular Pope. [/qupte]

Where did I say that? Don't put words in my mouth.

As Arrian said, it is people that require respect, not religion. We're not talking about fundies who would set fire to you for your beliefs, we all agree about what we think of them. We're talking orn'ry folks who'll never harm you and have their own set of game-rules to live by. If they think you'll go to hell, so what?

I'll ignore their religion. Don't expect me to respect it.

[Elok]

Originally posted by Provost Harrison
I'll ignore their religion. Don't expect me to respect it.

Fair enough. I think that's how most of us treat you, after all.

[Cort Haus]

Originally posted by Provost Harrison
Where did I say that? Don't put words in my mouth.

None of us can be sure that we are right about everything. This is where you said that there were no wrong beliefs in your head. I took it to be a declaration of infallibility.

Arrian : Provost. I'm sure that you have some belief somewhere in that head of yours that is, upon review, crazy. Or at least wrong.

Provost : No

[Arrian]

Some morons think that it's a good idea to send an email to a coworker that includes "ménage à trois"

I just can't respect that type of stupidity!

Ok, not the best analogy ever, but it does have the advantage of being pretty funny.

-Arrian

[Lorizael]

Along the same vein, I think this is a pretty delusional belief.

Originally posted by Provost Harrison
I've learned to live with it and face up to the fact that in all probability I will spend the rest of my life alone. That may sound melodramatic, but no one here really knows me and how I work...

[Nostromo]

The day somebody proves that consciousness can be made from matter is the day I leave my agnosticism and become an atheist . My current belief is that the brain is an interface between a corporeal body and a non-corporeal entity which is conscious , which , for lack of a better term , I call the soul .

I invite you to try to prove that consciousness is corporeal . I know can't be done . But you're free to try anyway .

Its a really thorny issue, but I invite you to read contemporary philosophy of mind. There's a lot of disagreement, but everyone that matters rejects cartesian dualism, the idea that brain and mind are two different kinds of substances that interact somehow. Everyone agrees that the mind is a "secretion" of the brain. So brain and mind are one and the same substance. After that, they agree on nothing, of course And, believe me, there's a lot to disagree about.

[Last Conformist]

I was gonna make a joke about that PH would find God if only he got laid, but I realized it wouldn't be funny.

[Elok]

I'm not sure how useful the argument against Cartesian dualism is. There's no way to prove it any more than you can prove God. You can only argue that the idea of a soul is not necessary for models to work and thus eliminate it via Occam's Razor. And even then, Platonic dualism is still quite real, in a sense; ideas may only be a manifestation of the physical world, but they still have a life and power of their own.

[Elok]

Originally posted by Last Conformist
I was gonna make a joke about that PH would find God if only he got laid, but I realized it wouldn't be funny.

Not especially, but I think he might be a lot more laid back if he got himself a woman (or man, if he discovers he swings that way). There doesn't even need to be sex involved; I'm an observant Christian but I think I've still become a lot more mellow since I found my GF. Even if all you do is kiss, it's immensely pleasant to have someone who will stand by you.

[Last Conformist]

If you can establish that no other interactions go on in the brain than those that go on in abiotic substances, you've established that either the brain takes no imput from the "soul", or everything has has a "soul". Either would kill Cartesian dualism in its "orthodox" form.

[Elok]

Originally posted by Last Conformist
If you can establish that no other interactions go on in the brain than those that go on in abiotic substances, you've established that either the brain takes no imput from the "soul", or everything has has a "soul". Either would kill Cartesian dualism in its "orthodox" form.

How do you figure? It's not like we would necessarily be able to detect a soul at work.