The Confederate Flag and NASCAR

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by Mrs. Tuberski
one last thing texas has many many flags
the confed flag isnt one of them but the mexican one is should we all be offended that that flag is flown or accept it is being flown by soemone that it means something to besides bad things???

Maybe flying the Mexican flag in southern Mexico.. I admit I haven't followed that very well.

But in the US, I don't know of any minorities that have a problem with it?

JM

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by Mrs. Tuberski
we all were challenged to talk to a black person to see what they thought of the flag. seems im the only one that mentioned i did and the couple i spoke to said its nothing to them, to the thier great grandparents maybe.. to them get over it already and move the **** into the new melenium!!!!!!! Thats what they said im sorry if some one wants to overcompesnate for **** we as people alive to day had no control over, so be it , but thats is your ignorance not the rest of ours that live and breathe amonng you. Juat as i asked of someone if historians go so far to get uniforms and weapons correct in reinactments of the souths battles, then why would the flags be any different and i have seen that flag in many re enactments?

When I go to church I talk to people who were beat up and the like... Sure, the younger generation hasn't faced the same level of racism. But the older generation did.

They are still living, they aren't dead yet. And they should be respected.

JM

[Arrian]

Thats what they said im sorry if some one wants to overcompesnate for **** we as people alive to day had no control over to so be it but thats is your ignorance

Actually, I think you've displayed plenty of ignorance regarding the Flag you so vehemently defend in this thread.

How is choosing to fly a flag that stands for racism and hate (what it has been used for has been rather exhaustively shown in this thread - Che's posts being the most thorough) not a deliberate provocation or at the very least obnoxious ignorance? Why is pointing that out "overcompensating?" The person flying the flagt is choosing to display that symbol... either in ignorance of its historical meaning or because they're actually nasty racists.

As for the people you spoke to - good for them. Then again, I rather think Che has some insight as well - he could just ask Bunnygirl. And I rather doubt a sample size of 1 or 2 is really conclusive.

If you want to fly the Confederate Flag, go ahead, it'll mark you as either an ignorant and/or racist redneck.

-Arrian

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by Mrs. Tuberski
And slowwy has a point the confederate flag was on top of the general LEE and i didnt hear on freaking complaint of that flag being on that car for as long as the tv series ran. so agian its all about picking and choosing what is offensive and who brings it up

I have civil war books with the flag on them. And I have books with the nazi flag on them. I don't think (not sure though) that we are on the level where we need to ban it's expression like the Germans did with the Nazis.

Sometimes I think they should have banned it in the 70s though.

JM

[LordShiva]

Originally posted by Mrs. Tuberski
to them get over it already and move the **** into the new melenium!!!!!!!

By flying a flag from 150 years ago?

[Dr Strangelove]

Originally posted by Mrs. Tuberski
one last thing texas has many many flags
the confed flag isnt one of them but the mexican one is should we all be offended that that flag is flown or accept it is being flown by soemone that it means something to besides bad things???

I don't understand. Texas was as much a part of the Confederacy as was Virginia or South Carolina. In fact Texas joined the Confederacy before Virginia did and Texas was the last Confederate state to surrender. Why then isn't the Confederate flag one of the flags of Texas? Texas was part of Mexico at one time, therefore the Mexican flag is one of "the flags of Texas". Texas was part of the Confederate States of America, so why isn't the Confederate flag also one of the flags of Texas?

IIRC black people in Texas celebrate "June 'teenth", the day that Texas surrendered and they became legally free as a holiday.

Regarding what the Mexican flag stands for in the eyes of a Texan you might take into account that slavery was a major reason why Texans seceded from Mexico. Many of the American who settled in Texas brought their slaves with them. Santa Anna, an ex-slave himself, launched a crusade against slavery in Mexico. The Texans knew that it was only a matter of time before hew would bring his campign north to Texas. That's why they seceded from Mexico. Their clamor for freedom was at the same time a sentence to slavery for all their black slaves.

[SlowwHand]

Juneteenth is this and this only:

Juneteenth is the oldest known celebration commemorating the ending of slavery in the United States. Dating back to 1865, it was on June 19th that the Union soldiers, led by Major General Gordon Granger, landed at Galveston, Texas with news that the war had ended and that the enslaved were now free.

Lee signed the The Surrender At Appomattox Court House on April 7th.
Up until June 19th, no one bothered to tell us it was over. That's how far removed Texas was from it.
We were too busy chasing off Comanche Indians, and keeping the Mexicans at bay.
It's not like we didn't have other things to occupy our time.

To say nothing of keeping Iowans out, because we knew right away they were a problem.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
Why should it matter whether you are gay or not. Imran cited it because it is supposed to be relevant to the issue at hand. It may give you a unique perspective, but it doesn't have anything to do with the Confederacy or with slavery. Why should being gay have anything to do with racial discrimination? No one knows you are gay unless you choose to tell them.

Er.. no. The strawmen are flying like birds these days . I stated Mr Fun was gay in response to Sloww claiming that he had no clue about inclusion. I'd imagine someone who was a minority has some idea about inclusion (or the lack thereof).

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by Arrian
As for the people you spoke to - good for them. Then again, I rather think Che has some insight as well - he could just ask Bunnygirl. And I rather doubt a sample size of 1 or 2 is really conclusive.

A good example of how blacks are offended by that flag and what it stands for is the fate of the South Carolina and Georgia state flags which up until recently had the Confederate battle flag on it. One of the big reasons both states removed it was due to economic pressures. Companies refused to open plants and factories down in those states because national black associations (like the NAACP) led boycots of companies that did business in states with Confederate battle flags in their state flag.

[Dr Strangelove]

Originally posted by SlowwHand
Juneteenth is this and this only:



Lee signed the The Surrender At Appomattox Court House on April 7th.
Up until June 19th, no one bothered to tell us it was over. That's how far removed Texas was from it.
We were too busy chasing off Comanche Indians, and keeping the Mexicans at bay.
It's not like we didn't have other things to occupy our time.

To say nothing of keeping Iowans out, because we knew right away they were a problem.

Even the Confederacy had the telegraph. News of the surrender of Lee and Johnston reached Texas within a week. Furthermore at the Battle Of Palmetto Ranch on May 13 captured Union troops spread the word that Confederate forces all over the South were surrendering. Once the word got out military commanders found themselves unable to keep their units intact, as men began to head home. Kirby Smith surrendered what was left of his command at the end of May. The government of the state of Texas headed towards the Mexican border almost in toto and en masse. General Grainger arrived on June 19 to restore order. Before his arrival no one had bothered to tell the black slaves that they were free. Nice people.

[SlowwHand]

Whatever, doc.

[Ming]

Over 500 posts... Finally