The Confederate Flag and NASCAR

[Tuberski]

Originally posted by Comrade Tassadar

A random picture that could be white Southern racists, Nazis, or some of Stalin's finest?

Indeed, it is quite interesting that you say that - you are correct, it is very difficult to draw the distinction between the racists of the CSA, the racists of the Nazi regieme, or the murderers of Stalin's rule.

All you are trying to do is sensationalize a debate.

Because this sort of thing *never* occured in America

Never said it didn't happen. I'm saying you are using a picture to support your argument without any mention of where the pciture took place.

I find it funny that someone from Logan, Utah thinks he knows anything about race relations. The only non-white people in that entire city play sports at USU.

ACK!

[Mrs. Tuberski]

Tass why in the world would i need or want to travel around the world displaying a swastika? first of all i have no desire to travel around the us since just gettign back home let alone the world, and then carrying a swastika? why would I, its ugly i dont like the design so i wouldnt carry something thats ugly.
Che i do not think folks are devoid and what not, i am simply stating that some folks dont see the same things u do as far as that flag is concerned! And that folks fromt he south arent all racist. I happen to have a black neighbor who is like a mother to me, and i actually asked her what she thought of the flag she said its nothing to me even though she was raised in the 50s and went to segregted schols she says its all history and said it might mean something different to her grand[arents but nothing to her. So yes i did actually ask a black person what they thought.
Very intersting converstion i had with her too cause it wasnt till she was actually 15 years old that she actually knew what a mexican was. She is a wonderful lady a and a great historian from her time in the south and if she is able to be forgiving why can the rest of yall be?
As far as nascar you have to be jiving me cause i could care less if they race again!!

[Mrs. Tuberski]

as have said, i am from texas the southern states dont consider me from the south, i have also said that i have been the victim of racism cause my husband is white as snow, i do not and will not let someone elses ignorance deter my path in life. My main point is if you choose to see this flag as racism so be it not everyone does, and to argue differently is insane.

[Nubclear]

Never said it didn't happen. I'm saying you are using a picture to support your argument without any mention of where the pciture took place.

All that is particularly relevant is that it was a white mob that killed a man because he was black.

I find it funny that someone from Logan, Utah thinks he knows anything about race relations. The only non-white people in that entire city play sports at USU.

Because blacks LOVED the CSA. They were clamouring to fight for the CSA!
What else would you expect? They agreed with the CSA policy of having them be treated as property.
I'm so glad that you, having travelled around, can dispel these myths that I have created clearly out of poverty of knowledge

Tass why in the world would i need or want to travel around the world displaying a swastika? first of all i have no desire to travel around the us since just gettign back home let alone the world, and then carrying a swastika? why would I, its ugly i dont like the design so i wouldnt carry something thats ugly.

Indeed. Your concerns are purely aesthetic - the Nazi Flag wouldn't compliment your features

My contention is that you are going to face negative reactions if you fly the flag. The fact that there is controversy over the flag would seem to confirm this.
End.

[SlowwHand]

End? Good. Kick rocks.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
I've been around Southerners for 4 years Sloww, and as a result of my job have been to the 1000 people town in Southern Georgia or North Carolina... and I agree with MrFun on this issue .

Same for me and additionally I was around 1000 person towns up north all my life in PA, NJ, MD and DE and I disagree. Funny how perspective works isn't it? As for Fun having a unique perspective because he is gay and that gives him some form of specal insight, this is a false presumption.

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe
As for Fun having a unique perspective because he is gay and that gives him some form of specal insight, this is a false presumption.

I disagree with the satement that MrFun has a special insight about the meaning of being black/slavery because of him being gay.

JM

[SlowwHand]

That's what Ogie said, Jon. Only thing giving him any perception at all is that he's a bigot and an idiot.

[Jon Miller]

Nah, he has read a lot of books. Which can give quite a bit of insight. Additionally, what he says agrees with the perspective of most black southerners.

If even a siginificant minority perceives it in such a way, it is a perspective that needs to be addressed, and those who hurt others (even a minority) despite the fact that they are told they are doing so, are bastards.

JM

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Personally, I wouldn't call him a bigot. Thats a bit over the top. I would say however his perspective does embody a typical northern slant.

edit- xposting with Jon. Jon makes a very valid point re: hurt of a minority faction of the populace. Good post Jon.

[SlowwHand]

I don't think people need to intentionally hurt people.
Can you tell me MrFun feels that same way? No, you can't.

[SlowwHand]

I'm going to post something that initially seems..not so good.
It makes valid points, but it also fans flames that really could just burn out. All have to be willing to let the flame die though.
That includes little pinheads in Iowa.

There are African Americans, Mexican Americans,

Asian Americans, Arab Americans, Native Americans, etc.

And then there are just Americans.

You pass me on the street and sneer in my direction.

You Call me "White boy," "Cracker," "Honkey,"

"Whitey," "Caveman" . and that's OK.

But when I call you, ******, ****, Towel head, Sand-******,

camel Jockey, Beaner, Gook, or Chink ... you call me a racist.

You say that whites commit a lot of violence against you,

so why are the ghettos the most dangerous places to live?

You have the United Negro College Fund. You have Martin Luther King

Day. You have Black History Month. You have Cesar Chavez Day. You

have Yom Hashoah You have Ma'uled Al-Nabi You have the NAACP.

You have BET.

If we had WET (White Entertainment Television) . we'd be racists.

If we had a White Pride Day .. you would call us racists.

If we had White History Month . we'd be racists.

If we had any organization for only whites to "advance" OUR lives .

we'd be racists.

We have a Hispanic Chamber of Commerce, a Black Chamber of

Commerce, and then we just have the plain Chamber of Commerce.

Wonder who pays for that?

If we had a college fund that only gave white students scholarships

... you know we'd be racists. There are over 60 openly proclaimed

Black Colleges in the US , yet if there were "White colleges"

THAT would be a racist college.

In the Million Man March, you believed that you were marching

for your race and rights If we marched for our race and rights,

you would call us racists.

You are proud to be black, brown, yellow and orange, and you're

not afraid to announce it. But when we announce our white pride .

you call us racists.

You rob us, carjack us, and shoot at us. But, when a white police officer

shoots a black gang member or beats up a black drug-dealer running

from the law and posing a threat to society . you call him a racist.

I am proud.

But, you call me a racist.

Why is it that only whites can be racists?

[Arrian]

Most of that is attacking strawmen.

No, we don't have white history month. We have white history year basically. Or rather white history 11 months (perhaps dropping to *gasp* 10 if we have hispanic history month or something). The fact is that the history taught in US public schools is still thoroughly dominated by "dead white guys." Personally I don't think that is inherently wrong - dead white guys ruled much of the world for a very long time - but what is so damned threatening (or racist ) about trying to shift the focus for a month?

As for the rest, though overdone, I generally agree: we need to get away from basing so much on race.

It's one thing to understand the past, it's another to be strangled by it.

Incidently, if one is in favor of moving on, why fly a flag that stands for racist oppression and hate?

-Arrian

[SlowwHand]

Did you just learn the term "strawmen"? You use it about everything.

The point of that ramble is that all have to, not just Whites; but you cant seem to move off that flag issue.

[Arrian]

Excuse me? I post a lot here at 'poly OT, Sloww, and I don't use that term except where I believe it to be applicable. As in when one attacks an argument one's opponent is not making.

That list of "you say..." is full of stuff that people don't generally say. It's a list of exaggerations, or the most radical stances available. Hence it's full of strawmen.

I can't seem to get off the flag issue? Sloww, you may have forgotten, but the Confederate Flag is the topic of this thread.

-Arrian