The Confederate Flag and NASCAR

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by Dr Strangelove


It was United States property and was already in existence before the rebel states seceded. There was no question about the legality of its construction nor the status of its ownership prior to 1861. The land had been legally bought by the US government and wsa its property. You're not a communist are you? Feeling a little bit Cuban?

If there was no question about the status of its ownership, then why did Lincoln's secretary of state agree to evacuate it?

That's what happens when both sides agree to peaceful separation. You can't have the armies of a foreign power spread throughout your territory. The Confederacy was prepared to compensate the Union for all federal installations.

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
@ Fort Sumpter being Confederate property.

It was never anything other than federal property. You can't simply take it if you leave.

Nobody was 'simply taking it'. Read my reply to Dr Strangelove.

[TCO]

Originally posted by rah
I'll agree that some of the reason was about state rights, but the right they were hottest over was slavery.
Without slavery the arguements about rights would probably never have been as intense.

Any other declaration was just white wash.


When I see a confederate flag, I assign it some negative connotations. I've known some racists that flew the flag to proclaim their racism. I also had a lot of college buds that flew it to show they were rebels and it looked cool. I've seen it more used by self declared racists so thats the first impression I get.

So unless you're going to go out of your way to show that you're flying the flag for different reasons. (like Lynyrd Skynyrd), then you have to expect that people might think you're being a racist.

Now Watergate does not bother me...

[Elok]

Oh, boo hoo hoo.

[TCO]

Does your consience bother you.

[Elok]

Should we continue quoting "Sweet Home Alabama" until this going-nowhere thread hits 500 and gets locked?

(tell the truth)

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Well I heard Neil Young sing about her

[SlowwHand]

There have been 3 eras of the KKK.

1st, following War Between The States.
This was a violent era. However it's focus was as much
against Northern "carpetbaggers" as against Blacks.

3rd, following integration in South. Although there was limited violence, by now the group is more a group of protest.

The 2nd era is interesting and is the one I found references readily available that stated any numbers for membership. It is also a violent era.

1915-1944.
Of the 10 states with highest membership, 7 of 10 were Northern States.
1,177,000 members total in these 10 states.

Indiana, with 240,000, members easily led in numbers (20% of top 10 total), followed by

Ohio with 195,000 members (17% of top 10 total).

Pennsylvania's 150,000 is far behind with 13%, which is good enough for a bronze medal.
3 states. 50% of total KKK membership.


Source: Gilder Lehrman Institute of American History
19 W. 44th Street, New York.


I could retrieve, again, the numbers on slave owners in the South at the time of the war, and show you it was 5%, not 25%, but I don't like doing repetitive work.

[Imran Siddiqui]

That's what happens when both sides agree to peaceful separation. You can't have the armies of a foreign power spread throughout your territory. The Confederacy was prepared to compensate the Union for all federal installations.

That's nice. We'll take all your bases, but we'll give you money for them. What, you don't want to give them up?! Well, we'll just fire on you until you do!

It's federal property, the federal government didn't give them to the states. Sorry.

[SlowwHand]

New Jersey was number 10 with 60,000.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Actually Slow I'm not surprised by that study. Being a northern transplant I can say unequivocally that the racism I saw up north was as bad if not worse than down here.

Rural North towns are pretty freakin brutal. Urban centers are about equivalent.

[SlowwHand]

The figures are from an institute in NY. I didn't use some perceived biased Southern source.
I wanted to be sure I stuck it up some asses.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Theres a good one on hate crimes I posted somewhere a bit back showing the same trends. Blue states having much higher per capita level of hate crimes than red states.

[Arrian]

You guys go right ahead and beat the crap outta that strawman! Kill him! Kill him dead!

-Arrian

[Imran Siddiqui]

Southern NJ had a decent slaveowning population.

Though the Klan of the 20s branched out into railing against Catholics, Jews, and foreigners as well as blacks (one may even say that Catholics got almost the same venom as blacks in that period). NJ is known for its very large Catholic population, especially from all the Italian immigrants who settled in the northern part of the state.