BREAKING NEWS: North Korea claims nuclear test!

[Lord Avalon]

Originally posted by GePap


Certainly a response, but its would not be "world changing." The US nukes NK back, NK collapses, and SK gets stuck with the cost. Probably some sort of economic slowdown in the the region for a few years.

None of that would change the balance of power in the region in a way negative to China, and NK would really only nuke Japan if it was desperate and on the verge of collapse already, or if it was attacked first.

Wouldn't China get stuck with some of the cost, as it would be a likely destination for some of the NK refugees?

[SlowwHand]

Originally posted by GePap


Certainly a response, but its would not be "world changing." The US nukes NK back, NK collapses, and SK gets stuck with the cost. Probably some sort of economic slowdown in the the region for a few years.

None of that would change the balance of power in the region in a way negative to China, and NK would really only nuke Japan if it was desperate and on the verge of collapse already, or if it was attacked first.

GePap, it's a nuclear attack. You're a learned person.
You have to know that an event of such magnitude wouldn't just go idly by.

[GePap]

Originally posted by SlowwHand


GePap, it's a nuclear attack. You're a learned person.
You have to know that an event of such magnitude wouldn't just go idly by.

And NK getting nuked back is idle?!?

Oh, and don't overestimate nukes.

[SlowwHand]

No, NK getting nuked back isn't idle. SO now we have 2 nuke explosions; but that again affects nothing?
They're overrated? I don't know about you, but I'd just as soon not have nukes going off near me. If one does, I'd rather land on me directly.

[GePap]

Originally posted by SlowwHand
No, NK getting nuked back isn't idle. SO now we have 2 nuke explosions; but that again affects nothing?
They're overrated? I don't know about you, but I'd just as soon not have nukes going off near me. If one does, I'd rather land on me directly.

You are overrating nukes by claiming that a couple of nuclear blasts "change the world." They don't. Nuclear weapons are certainly massively destructive, but the environmental impact globally is limited, so if two (or multipl;e nukes as would likely be the case) were to go off in North East Asia you over there in Texas would suffer no ill effects.

Even the political impact would not change the world, as the world is used to wars, even horribly destructive ones. A limited nuclear exchange is not going to rewrite any rules.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Elok
I'm not saying it's saleable, just that it's ultimately a sounder policy than waiting for lightning to strike forever.

Striking a country with 1.2 million men in the army, a government which spends a HUGE percentage of the economy on the military, and who has been preparing for this war for the last 55 years isn't the smartest thing.

Better to try to talk the Chinese into agree to sanctions then watching them die of economic strangulation. Likely, the Chinese won't agree to real meaningful sanctions but if the west was unified in making China chose between trade with the west or continuing to support one of the most evil regimes in the world I think China would figure out which side keeps its bread buttered.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by SlowwHand
No, NK getting nuked back isn't idle. SO now we have 2 nuke explosions; but that again affects nothing?
They're overrated? I don't know about you, but I'd just as soon not have nukes going off near me. If one does, I'd rather land on me directly.

We have one nuclear explosion as the reported second one was actually the Japanese accidently mistaking an earthquake as a nuclear blast. Secondly, the French are now claiming that their computers put the reported blast at just 100 tons which is tiny, tiny, tiny. So small that it would be smaller then either bomb the US dropped on Japan in 1945. It was clearly a failure of a test though likely the North Koreans will learn from this huge mistake and conduct another one.

[SlowwHand]

Read up. Talking hypotheticals.

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by GePap


You are overrating nukes by claiming that a couple of nuclear blasts "change the world." They don't. Nuclear weapons are certainly massively destructive, but the environmental impact globally is limited, so if two (or multipl;e nukes as would likely be the case) were to go off in North East Asia you over there in Texas would suffer no ill effects.

Even the political impact would not change the world, as the world is used to wars, even horribly destructive ones. A limited nuclear exchange is not going to rewrite any rules.

Why is it that both people on the left (GePap) and the right (Bush and Co) seem to think that limited nuke use would be OK..?

JM

[GePap]

Originally posted by Jon Miller


Why is it that both people on the left (GePap) and the right (Bush and Co) seem to think that limited nuke use would be OK..?

JM

When the hell did I say "it would be OK"????

There is a difference between having a realistic notion of what nuclear weapons actually do and codoning their use. Outlandish scenerios on what nukes can do are NOT helpful to any real discussion on the topic.

[Proteus_MST]

Originally posted by GePap


Certainly a response, but its would not be "world changing." The US nukes NK back, NK collapses, and SK gets stuck with the cost. Probably some sort of economic slowdown in the the region for a few years.

None of that would change the balance of power in the region in a way negative to China, and NK would really only nuke Japan if it was desperate and on the verge of collapse already, or if it was attacked first.

As a lot of people in china still are mad at japanese behavior when it occupied Manchuku (surprisingly especially from the younger generation) the scenario of NK nuking Japan would probably not even be an unwanted scenario in the minds of many chinese

[SlowwHand]

U.N. council agrees on N. Korea sanctions resolution

10:46 AM CDT on Friday, October 13, 2006

Associated Press


UNITED NATIONS - The U.N. Security Council agreed Friday on the text of a resolution that would impose sanctions on North Korea for its claimed nuclear test earlier this week and set a vote for Saturday.

Japan's U.N. Ambassador Kenzo Oshima, the current council president, and U.S. Ambassador John Bolton, who introduced the resolution, announced the vote after a brief closed council meeting to discuss the latest draft resolution.

"There may some additional changes to the text," Bolton said, "but we do have unanimous agreement."

Bolton said the council's agreement just five days after North Korea's announcement it had detonated a nuclear device was "a sign of the determination of the council in the face of this threat to move quickly."

Oshima said he would set a time for the vote Saturday.

The United States, Britain, France and Japan reached a compromise agreement with Russia and China at a meeting Thursday that allayed Chinese and Russian concerns that the resolution could be used to launch a military attack on North Korea.

The latest draft would only authorize non-military sanctions against the North and clearly states that any further action the council might want to take would require another U.N. resolution. It also eliminates a blanket arms embargo in the previous draft, instead targeting specific equipment for sanctions including missiles, tanks, warships and combat aircraft.

[DRoseDARs]

In related news:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061013/...s/us_nkorea_49;_ylt=Akcp5Yxu0FQegCJtDs8rJxCCscEA;_ylu=X3oDMTBiMW 04NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRPUCUl

Official: No radioactive particles found

By ROBERT BURNS, AP Military Writer 2 hours, 31 minutes ago

WASHINGTON - Results from an initial air sampling after
North Korea's announced nuclear test showed no evidence of radioactive particles that would be expected from a successful nuclear detonation, a U.S. government intelligence official said Friday.

The test results do not necessarily mean the North Korean blast was not a nuclear explosion, the official said, speaking on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to disclose the sampling results.

The U.S. government remains uncertain of the nature of the underground explosion, although the air sampling tends to reinforce earlier doubts about whether the test blast was entirely successful, officials said. Data from seismic sensors indicated the explosion was smaller than expected.

The air sample was taken Tuesday by a specialized aircraft, the WC-135, flying from Kadena air base in Okinawa, Japan. It apparently took the sample over the Sea of Japan, between the Korean mainland and Japan.

In Beijing, a government official said Friday that Chinese monitoring also has found no evidence of airborne radiation from North Korea's claimed nuclear test. The official with the State Environmental Protection Administration said China has been monitoring air samples since the test-explosion Monday.

"We have conducted air monitoring and found no radiation in the air over Chinese territory so far," said the official, who requested anonymity because he was not authorized to publicly release the information. The official declined to explain how the Chinese monitoring was conducted.

The U.S. intelligence official said an initial result from testing of the U.S. air sample became available late this week. He said a final result would be available within days but the initial finding is considered conclusive.

It was not immediately clear whether the WC-135 took additional samples after the Tuesday effort.

Word of the test results came as the U.S. continued its diplomatic offensive at the
United Nations and with Pyongyang's neighbors, aimed at forcing North Korea to drop its efforts to develop nuclear weapons.

Members of the
U.N. Security Council agreed Friday on the wording of a resolution that would clamp sanctions on the communist country. The draft would authorize non-military sanctions against the North, and it says that any further action the council might want to take would require another U.N. resolution.

It also eliminates a blanket arms embargo from a tougher, previous draft, instead targeting specific equipment for sanctions including missiles, tanks, warships and combat aircraft.

The U.S., which has sought tough steps that could leave the door open to a blockade or other military action, has had to give ground to gain support from China and Russia. Those countries, along with
South Korea, have been reluctant to abandon diplomatic efforts to resolve the standoff

When
President Bush announced Wednesday that he wanted the United Nations and North Korea's neighbors to take steps aimed at pressuring Pyongyang to abandon its nuclear program, Bush indicated that he saw little distinction between an actual nuclear test by North Korea and its announcement of one.

"The United States is working to confirm North Korea's claim, but this claim itself constitutes a threat to international peace and stability," Bush said.

[DaShi]

Originally posted by GePap


You are overrating nukes by claiming that a couple of nuclear blasts "change the world." They don't. Nuclear weapons are certainly massively destructive, but the environmental impact globally is limited, so if two (or multipl;e nukes as would likely be the case) were to go off in North East Asia you over there in Texas would suffer no ill effects.

Even the political impact would not change the world, as the world is used to wars, even horribly destructive ones. A limited nuclear exchange is not going to rewrite any rules.

Exactly, it's the butterflies you have to worry about.

And DRoseDARs article further contributes to my belief that there wasn't a nuclear explosion in NK. Either it failed, or they simply used enough conventional explosives to try to mimic it.

[SlowwHand]

So they bought themselves sanctions for nothing?
More proof of brilliance.