Disturbing Christian material . . . . . . . .

[Sprayber]

Originally posted by Japher


Yeah, some are named Sloww too.

Hey, don't forget me. I'm a bastard to. Just not a ****ing bastard..

[Barnabas]

Originally posted by notyoueither
Jewish English directors of the Masonic order

are resposible for all the wars in the world !!








j/k

[Ben Kenobi]

Oh wow.

I don't suppose this has anything to do with your previous thread asking Christians what it is they believe.

You make some good points and I'm sorry I didn't reply to this earlier, but please bear with me.

[1] There goes religious tolerance and respect for other religions out the window .

Not really. First of all Christians believe that all those who believe in Christ will be resurrected and will go to heaven. Those who for whatever reason reject Christ (including many who call him Lord, Lord, but do not love him in their hearts) will go to hell.

I'm sorry if this isn't considered 'respect' or 'toleration' to say that unbelievers will go to hell, but this is the truth.

Secondly, you have to remember is that those who have not known Christ but have followed the law in their heart become a law unto themselves. So it isn't the Christians who will decide who will be saved, but Christ himself. Many who are outside the visible church will be saved, and many who are inside will not.

Those who do know Christ have one decision to make, they can choose to believe in Christ and to follow him, or they can choose to reject him. If they choose to reject him, then they bear the consequences of that choice.

[Bosh]

OMG! A Christian school that is Christian! What a surprise! I am sitting here with my mouth hanging open in shock!

Although I've got to question the quality of the education that kids in these places get. Some of the kids that my hagwon teaches attend a Christian international school and their brains areso packed with Creationist propaganda that they all swore that dogs were examples of special creation and that they could never have "evolved" from wolves.

[Ben Kenobi]

[2] So now you have to confirm or get thrown out ? WTF ? What about the students who have been put there by orthodox Christian parents ? Imagine what they will have to suffer through - having to suppress your beliefs all the time in school , not daring to voice your opinion for fear that you will be expelled and thus catch it from their parents . What sort of sick intellectual climate is this ?

It's quite common among schools to say that they will expect Christian students to conform to a Christian lifestyle. Now as you put it "students who have been put their by Orthodox parents", that's hardly the case for most. For most parents, this is a way for their kids to get and education at the same time as reinforcing their child's faith.

I'm not sure why you believe that most kids would resent a clause like this, most would not even bother to look at it or feel constrained. Young people do choose to be Christians and enjoy life as a Christian, and would actually welcome a school that would help them in their journey as Christians.

This school alone caters to 1800 students . I wonder - what effect does this indoctrination and intimidation ( there is no other word for it ) have on their long-term development ?

Indoctrination and intimidation? Who says the children are not going to such schools willingly?

I myself studied in a Hindu liberal fundamentalists school ( yes , they do exist ) . Their stance was that of the typical Hindu liberal fundemantalist - all religions are equal , all provide a path to moksha/salvation/enlightenment/nirvana , and if you dare to differ and say that some religion is worse or better than any other , then you are a bigot/fascist/hate-monger/usual-PC-crap . There was one exception - you could criticise Hinduism and get away with it . Maybe I should call them liberal Hindu mashochist fundamenatlists - because they were all devout Hindus , were all liberals , and all hated any criticism of any religion except their own , and were deeply pained by criticism of their own religion , but still it was the only criticism they would tolerate .

Well you have to remember that while your experiences with such a school were negative, many students see just the opposite, that they are encouraged by such a school.

The end result was that almost everyone in my school became an atheist or something similar - there was absolutely no other way to rebel against a doctrine whose only message was the equality of all religions and sanctity of all religions . You couldn't rebel by converting to some other religion - because these people embraced all religions . You couldn't rebel by becoming more orthodox - because then only you would look silly . So the only option left was to cut links with religion altogether . That's what most people did . Then , after leaving school , they mostly realised that their religion consisted of much more than what was taught to them as school - because usually nothing was taught at school except the vaguest of praises of all religions , so as not to compromise the secular and liberal character of the school

So in a sense you found the desire to necessarily rebel against the teachings of such a school. I'm not sure why you reject the rebellion in adopting a more orthodox faith, such that Hinduism was a superior religion to others, and deepening your faith. That to me seems a perfectly plausible reaction to such a watered down school.

One of the students of this same Christian school has gone on to make a documentary called "The God Who Wasn't There" , about the problems posed by resurgent orthodox Christainity in America . This is where I got wind of this Christian school's doings .

So you look at the criticisms of one student as an accurate account not only of this one particular school, but of all similar schools in the United States? That to me requires a little more careful examination to test and see whether such things are actually true, and not just the difficulties of one student.

What I dislike about such places - both the liberal fundie ones , and the orthodox fundie ones - is that they create people with sekwed perspectives . The freethinking people who attend a liberal fundamentalist stronghold will be more likely to miss out on what religion really means , whereas if the same people attend an orthodox fundemanetlist school , their perception of religion will be coloured with the regressive tendencies these places promote .

So lets see. The liberal folks 'miss out on learning what religion is all about, and in my words, miss out on the joy of learning to live in faith.'

I agree with you here. Now what I am not sure of is why you feel the fundamentalists are coloured in their religion as 'regressive'. Such a perception will seem natural to anyone from a liberal and secular viewpoint. If religions are in fact regressive, then there is nothing to miss out in not teaching them, and you have nothing to learn from religion in general.

If in fact religions are valuable, then devotion to such religion can hardly be termed 'regressive.'

Both of them lead to people missing out on the beauty of the religious experience , whether personal or communal ( depending on the person and the religion , of course ) . Both places curb free inquiry and a proper study of religion , thus crippling their wards' religious growth - the fundie hates inquiry for obvious reasons , whereas the liberal hates inquiry because it might go against taboo of not criticising religion and not judging it .

Very interesting Aneeshm. I'll have to think about replying to your point here.

You are right that Christianity of all religions ought to be willing to 'test all things and hold onto that which is good.' There are scores of devout Christians that have reinforced their own faith through the examinations of their precepts and tenets.

My only criticism of such an approach is that a critical examination of Christianity is usually only done to tear down faith rather then encouraging faith to be built up. I'm not sure whether these fundamentalist schools suffer from a lack of introspection and examination of questions of the faith, as there are a great deal of very orthodox Christian writers that have spent considerable time in such activities.

In India , we have the reverse problem . The "secular" governemnt will never tolerate a Hindu religious school like the Christian one I mentioned here .

I would disagree with such approach. If there is a demand for very faithful hindu teachings then there should be schools built privately for such purposes. Then again, this also tends to be a very western idea of freedom of religion, so that perception is most definitely not common elsewhere.

Should such schools be allowed to operate ? If so , then should their syllabus be regulated by the state ? My personal answer to these questions is Yes and No , respectively . What's your opinion on this ?

If such schools are to issue certificates of graduation then they should be permitted to operate provided that they examine the students with the same tests as everyone else.

Other then that, I see no need to restrict such schools from operation.

[Ben Kenobi]

No, catholics believe the bible was inspired by God, and only the Church can "infallibly" interpret it.

That means that everyone else (you, me, protestants, etc) can read the bible and get it wrong

Well not quite. Yes we believe that the bible was inspired by God, and yes we believe that the church can accurately interpret the bible, as it is one of the offices of the magisterium.

However, by no means is the magisterium including the pope infalliable in such interpretations except in very limited circumstances.

The pope can speak infalliably, the last time he did so was in establishing the doctrine of the immaculate conception.

[MRT144]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
Indoctrination and intimidation? Who says the children are not going to such schools willingly?

it was the only option left after the water slide school had a viral outbreak, the rollercoaster school collapsed and the candy school was deemed a "serious yet delicious health hazard".

[Ben Kenobi]

So an education in one of these places would be less rigorous then the average public school?

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Brachy-Pride


are resposible for all the wars in the world !!








j/k

No, those are their American cousins, who secretly run the secret organisation.

It's so secret that even the people who know secrets don't know about it.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
I'm sorry if this isn't considered 'respect' or 'toleration' to say that unbelievers will go to hell, but this is the truth.

Secondly, you have to remember is that those who have not known Christ but have followed the law in their heart become a law unto themselves. So it isn't the Christians who will decide who will be saved, but Christ himself. Many who are outside the visible church will be saved, and many who are inside will not.

Those who do know Christ have one decision to make, they can choose to believe in Christ and to follow him, or they can choose to reject him. If they choose to reject him, then they bear the consequences of that choice.

You know, I have a lot of tolerance, but I can't help but be a bit put off by people running around saying that people who don't believe as they do are going to burn in hell-fire.

Maybe it's just me, but don't you think such expressions do less than contribute to a civil society?

[Ben Kenobi]

I have a lot of tolerance, but I can't help but be a bit put off by people running around saying that people who don't believe as they do are going to burn in hell-fire.

Maybe it's just me, but don't you think such expressions do less than contribute to a civil society?

Well there are many things that are not polite in civil society that are nevertheless the truth. The fact that right now there is a war going on and that innocent people are dying every day is not polite, but it is happening.

I don't see the folks saying to all the peace activists who show pictures of dead children and mourning families as not contributing to a civil society in attempting to tell the truth.

If you start a thread asking Christians to tolerate people of other faith that is fine. We will do many things for people who are 'unbelievers', we will do whatever we can to help them with their lives here on earth.

If we become intolerant the moment we insist that all those professing, or not professing to be Christians who do not have their heart with Christ will go to hell, then perhaps one should not be demanding that Christians conform to the beliefs of others which say that there is no difference between religions.

[MRT144]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
So an education in one of these places would be less rigorous then the average public school?

I just think if children really had a choice in what school they wanted to go to the aformentioned ones would have the highest enrollment rate.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
Well there are many things that are not polite in civil society that are nevertheless the truth. The fact that right now there is a war going on and that innocent people are dying every day is not polite, but it is happening.

I don't see the folks saying to all the peace activists who show pictures of dead children and mourning families as not contributing to a civil society in attempting to tell the truth.

If you start a thread asking Christians to tolerate people of other faith that is fine. We will do many things for people who are 'unbelievers', we will do whatever we can to help them with their lives here on earth.

If we become intolerant the moment we insist that all those professing, or not professing to be Christians who do not have their heart with Christ will go to hell, then perhaps one should not be demanding that Christians conform to the beliefs of others which say that there is no difference between religions.

The problem, Ben, is when people think their belief is THE TRUTH.

Dead people are facts. Your interpretation of what will happen to people like me who do not agree with you is not.

It pisses people off when fundies of any stripe begin holding forth on heaven, hell, and the merits of 42 virgins.

I'd ask, 'can't you see that?' but I venture to guess that it would be wasted bandwidth.

[Ben Kenobi]

[Ben Kenobi]

edit X-posted with NYE

The problem, Ben, is when people think their belief is THE TRUTH.

Dead people are facts. Your interpretation of what will happen to people like me who do not agree with you is not.

Truthfully I don't know NYE. It's not up to me to decide. All I can say is that Christ will judge and this is the standard that we are taught that he will judge by.

It pisses people off when fundies of any stripe begin holding forth on heaven, hell, and the merits of 42 virgins.

I'd ask, 'can't you see that?' but I venture to guess that it would be wasted bandwidth.

No I don't. I should think you would be rather glad to have Christians in your midst since the worst that you will get from us is some fire and brimstone. The Muslims would be rather less tolerant of unbelievers.

Everyone has their beliefs that they believe to be true. For the Christians, their faith in Christ. For others, it is their faith that all religions are no different from one another. Now when you say that it bothers you that someone would claim what he believes is true, well I think we all do that for different things. Why should what I believe be less true to me than what you believe be less true to you?