Middle East thread continued

[dannubis]

Originally posted by Arrian
You think his "point" has any validity?

The Belgians that were hurt were in the wrong place at the wrong time. They certainly were not the targets. They are, unfortnately, in a war zone. It's not in any way their fault, of course, but that's the situation. Israel is after Hezbollah, which operates from Lebanon. The Belgians had the misfortune of being in Lebanon right after Hezbollah picked a fight with Israel.

To equate that to throwing a molotav cocktail at a synagoge is either a) really poorly thought-out; or b) a troll.

-Arrian

you have got to be kidding me:

I showed the same disdain for anything or anyone that is jewish as the israeli's do when dealing with non jewish matters and suddenly it's a troll, not to be taken seriously, outrageous,...

i wonder what would happen if an israeli bomb would kill or wound some very important strategic targets such as american TOURISTS. just at the wrong place i presume.

btw, this is the same state that called the Belgians Nazis when a lawsuit was filed against sharon a few years ago for crimes against humanity. they can go **** themselves for all i care: no more preferential treatment.

oh, and since the israeli state was fundamentally fomulated as an answer to the jewish question after ww2, you point about the difference between israeli and jews is semantics anyway, but literally speaking, i stand corrected on that one.

[Drake Tungsten]

Fun with selective quoting!

btw, this is the same state that called the Belgians Nazis when a lawsuit was filed against sharon a few years ago for crimes against humanity.

I showed the same disdain for anything or anyone that is jewish

Calling you a ****ing Nazi seems about right. Don't know about your countrymen.

[dannubis]

nice highlighting and pulling out of the context over there...

Not that i suspect anything else comming from your way though. Keep it up! You have learnt well from your masters.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by dannubis
oh, and since the israeli state was fundamentally fomulated as an answer to the jewish question after ww2, you point about the difference between israeli and jews is semantics anyway, but literally speaking, i stand corrected on that one.

I'm "Jewish" (I have proveable Jewish ancestry), and I could immigrate to Israel if I wanted to.

I certainly don't want being associated with that country, which is occasionally done by the antisemites or by the fact Israel is the Jewish state.

[Sikander]

Originally posted by Sandman
What was the point of blowing up Beirut's lighthouse?

Logistics are important in warfare. Keeping your opponents shipping from enjoying a movement advantage could be critical, even if it is only 1 movement point.

[VetLegion]

There's also the food production bonus on sea squares.

[dannubis]

Originally posted by Spiffor

I'm "Jewish" (I have proveable Jewish ancestry), and I could immigrate to Israel if I wanted to.

I certainly don't want being associated with that country, which is occasionally done by the antisemites or by the fact Israel is the Jewish state.

Note that in my original post the situation I was alluding to is a hypothetical one. I never intended to target you by it.

But imagine the outcry from Israel and the rest of the world if that were to happen (and rightly so). Why isn't Israel held to the same standards as the rest of us ?

[Ming]

Re: Fun with selective quoting!

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
Calling you a ****ing Nazi seems about right. Don't know about your countrymen.

And I'm about to call you "restricted"...

Any more of the personal crap and you are toast.

Discuss the topic... not the posters!

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by dannubis
But imagine the outcry from Israel and the rest of the world if that were to happen (and rightly so). Why isn't Israel held to the same standards as the rest of us ?

From what I gather (from my discussions with French Jews, I don't know if foreign Jews share a similar point of view), it comes from the idea that antisemitism is a very specific beast, unlike any other form of racism and bigotry.

According to the people I talked to, there is something more dangerous with antisemitism than with other forms of racism, in that antisemitism has the seeds of a new shoah in itself. The shoah is also an entirely unique genocide, worse than any other genocide.


My analysis:
After WW2, the rejection of antisemitism was the only widespread anti-racist stance. This anti-antisemitism mostly came from the West's collective guilt about the shoah. However, with time, other anti-racist causes have gained support, and many jews feared that their own cause would be lost in an ocean of other anti-racist causes. As a result, many became vocal about the idea that antisemitism in innately more dangerous than other forms of racism.
Some call it the "victimization race", and the Jews lead that race so far, because the Jewish community in the west is more influencial than other communities, as the Jews are better integrated in mainstream society, and the collective guilt about the shoah hasn't disappeared.

[Proteus_MST]

They seem to be very successful in it,
as there seem to be lots of people, often fromthe far left of the political spectrum, which associate any critic on Israel (or mentioning things from the past, like Sabra & Shatila or Deir Yassin) with antisemitism.

[Az]

mentioning things like that isn't antisemtism - it's just plain silly.

All in all, through the days, my stance is unchanged, and so is anyone else's, here, and around the world.

But it seems like Israel is about to achieve it's goal - with europe and the US, basically agreeing with Israel's demands...

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Proteus_MST
They seem to be very successful in it,
as there seem to be lots of people, often fromthe far left of the political spectrum, which associate any critic on Israel (or mentioning things from the past, like Sabra & Shatila or Deir Yassin) with antisemitism.

I think this part is specific for Germany: Germany is (obviously) the country where there is most guilt over the shoah, and most far-left movements in the world like to emphasise what's wrong with their own countries.

Most far-left parties in the world have strongly think that Israel behaves as a conqueror, and as such is the villain.

[Proteus_MST]

Yes, I think you´re right here.
Especially with german message boards a variation of godwins law holds true:
The longer a thread about Israel grows, the higher the probability, that someone accuses another poster of being an antisemite

[BlackCat]

Originally posted by Spiffor

Most far-left parties in the world have strongly think that Israel behaves as a conqueror, and as such is the villain.

You are right about this, but the main reason is that US supports israel. If US had supported the pals, they would have considered them as the evil opressors.

[VetLegion]

And the US supports Israel because?