Astronauts vs Cavemen. Who wins?

[KrazyHorse]

I'll take the pit bull every time, thanks.

[chequita guevara]

You only get a mutt.

[GePap]

Dogs have been trained to be vicious, while a wolf will avoid confrontation if it can, and I doub t alone wolf would be very aggressive unless rabid or with nowhere to run.

If I had to chose a large dog or a wolf, I go large dog.

[GePap]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
You only get a mutt.

Why? An Astronaut is not a regular person, but a trained and fit individual. Much closer to the wolfhound than mutt in this dog analogy.

[Thorgal]

Originally posted by VetLegion


You're pretty weak for a 95 kg guy:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claymore

"The average claymore ran about 55 inches (1.4 m) in overall length, with a 13 inch (33 cm) grip, 42 inch (1 m) blade and weighed approximately 5.5 lb (2.5 kg)."

Very nice. There is indeed many types of claymores that being an ultra-light one. A light cimitar for a hand only weighted about 1.5 Kg. The Cid sword "Tizona" for fighting using one hand too was over 2 Kg.

The typical claymore "mandoble" from the Renaissance was around 4-6 kg and the one i am speaking about was, according to our guide, made to fight against heavily armored enemies and the weight was aroung 6,5 Kg.

[GePap]

Originally posted by Thorgal

Very nice. There is indeed many types of claymores that being an ultra-light one. A light cimitar for a hand only weighted about 1.5 Kg. The Cid sword "Tizona" for fighting using one hand too was over 2 Kg.

The typical claymore "mandoble" from the Renaissance was around 4-6 kg and the one i am speaking about was, according to our guide, made to fight against heavily armored enemies and the weight was aroung 6,5 Kg.

Which is about 15 pounds, certainly cumbersome overall, but not something that your average modern man could not lift and swing with power.

You and I are far better fed and much healthier than they ever were, and we have the same genes as they do.

Same genetics plus better nutrition and better health equal better overall strenght, at least with a similar level of physical exertion.

The fact is not that modern people shae shrunk or are weak. Just out of shape, but 6 months of excercise would fix that.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by GePap


Why? An Astronaut is not a regular person, but a trained and fit individual. Much closer to the wolfhound than mutt in this dog analogy.

So you get to use a trained dog, not one specifically bred for fighting. Astronauts are not bred for going in to space, and given their age, they generally aren't even the fittest of our species, nor even at their own peak fitness.

[GePap]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara


So you get to use a trained dog, not one specifically bred for fighting. Astronauts are not bred for going in to space, and given their age, they generally aren't even the fittest of our species.

Well, "cavemen" are not trained for fighting other people either. In that respect the astronaut has an edge.

And as I said, a Wolf doesn;t pick ramdom fights. They fight when they have a purpose, and avoid it at any other time, they are no stupid, they know the possible consequences of a fight, and they are deadly. Some breeds of dogs will just pick fights. THat makes dogs more dangerous, and I would bet on an aggresive dog against a wolf of similar size.

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by GePap


Which is about 15 pounds, certainly cumbersome overall, but not something that your average modern man could not lift and swing with power.

Given that the weight is not concentrated at the end it's probably easier to swing than a pickaxe or a sledgehammer.

[VetLegion]

Originally posted by Thorgal

Very nice. There is indeed many types of claymores that being an ultra-light one. A light cimitar for a hand only weighted about 1.5 Kg. The Cid sword "Tizona" for fighting using one hand too was over 2 Kg.

The typical claymore "mandoble" from the Renaissance was around 4-6 kg and the one i am speaking about was, according to our guide, made to fight against heavily armored enemies and the weight was aroung 6,5 Kg.

It's common knowledge that 16th century Europeans were short, underfed weaklings compared to modern man. The average height today is probably 15 cm higher than that in medieval times. Don't know about weight, but I'd say the difference is even more drastic

And you want to seriousely claim that those people were some sort of fighting machines whose weapons we can today barely pick up, let alone use? Get serious.

BTW., the really large two handed swords were too heavy for combat and were used almost exclusively for duels and tournaments.

[Geronimo]

Originally posted by Terra Nullius
Huh? Why isn't my strike-through working?

Anyhoo as to the question at hand... it's gotta depend on the numbers on each side.

With larger numbers, the astronauts' ability to organise would probably win the day, with smaller numbers, the caveblokes' toughness and preparedness ought to win.

I should have specified, but I think the assumption has been numbers on the small side. Maybe 7 of each. A band of hunters used to hunting together and a fairly large group of astronauts used to training together.

So seven vs seven?

[Geronimo]

Originally posted by Terra Nullius
Ignoring the facts!!!

Hey, it's what I do.

Now, first of all - I never said strong. : prissy_grin :
Although I have to admit, it's an image that's kinda hard to dislodge.

Secondly, 'toughness' isn't so easy to measure.
For example, the kids in the Indian Himalaya have this great game they play. Kinda like what the Yanks call dodgeball, except they can't afford fancy balls 'n stuff, so they use rocks instead.

That makes for one hardass bunch of 10 year-olds I can tell ya. And I can't help thinking that someone who has spent their life sleeping rough in all kinds of weather is still going to be a lot 'tougher' than the average westerner.

But then, I guess I was automatically assuming the fight would take place in some kind of forested wilderness, where being well habituated to the terrain and climate would offer a significant advantage. Obviously, that might not be the case.

So I really should ask; is this fight gonna be a 10-round ringside knockout, or a month-long survivor-in-the-wilds kinda thang?

hrmm.

That does make quite a difference.

Maybe mutual misunderstanding in a fairly open (as in no trees or useful objects to speak of) but mutually unfamilier outdoor area? Maybe a steep sided dry canyon and both groups think they need to get past the other group into the opposite ends of the canyon beyond but a misunderstanding provokes a fight?

In that case neither side is much familier with the terrain and there isn't a lot of gadgets nearby to confuse the cavemen or get taken advantage of by the astronauts.

[Geronimo]

Originally posted by Elok
Come to think of it, mayhap somebody should specify what is meant by "cavemen." I was thinking it referred to people who lived in the period of time prior to the development of agriculture, but after the rise of humans as a distinct species. In which case, it covers about a hundred-thousand-year time span, give or take a little. Is that about what we were thinking of?

If so, the conclusion would depend a bit on the period. People from the Younger Dryas drought at the end of the last ice age would be malnourished and puny, easily beaten. But some of the classic hunter-gatherers from 20 KYA would have had a diet VERY high in protein, and would be quite accustomed to bringing down megafauna with atlatls while enduring winds sharp enough to split the skin. Space training ain't got squat on that. Those people basically lived their whole lives in Navy SEAL training.

And we've already established that these fights are unarmed. The use of "brains" is limited to clever holds and throws, and/or dropping boulders Warner Bros. style, etc. Do you think these people didn't know how to fight, or how to use the environment to their advantage? They hunted most successfully by using clever schemes to kill. And their knowledge of the weak spots of human anatomy would be fairly encyclopedic from watching their kin get gored.

doh. Ok I guess we'll have to assume the Cavemen are homo sapiens but that they are scouting into unknown territory after a season of very successful hunting which has had them well fed. They are returning to their families by an unfamilier canyon because the original route they took got cut off by flooding and the astronauts are heading the other way where they know capsule with lots of unfair gadgets landed but they will have a long trek through the canyon to reach them.


There. Non starving cavemen who are homo sapiens and who have eaten a hunters diet somewhat supplimented with typical foraged plants their families scrounged up vs astronauts who until very recently followed the normal astronaut culinary habits.

In that case it shouldn't matter which exact era in the preagricultural late paleolithic the cavemen are from.

[SlowwHand]

Can the astronauts drown the cavemen in gatorade?

[Geronimo]

Originally posted by SlowwHand
Can the astronauts drown the cavemen in gatorade?

I suppose they can try. But they will be lucky if they have a single small serving of gatorade among them I would think.