California Judge declares High School diplomas meaningless

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara

Originally posted by Oerdin
It really is more of a cultural thing. Whites and Asians go through the same school systems and graduate with a fine education.

But not the same schools. Schools for minorities are generally much poorer, even if the overall school system is good. Part of that is cultural and a result of students who don't give a damn. Part of it is lack of resources. Part of it is crappy resources. It ain't easy to learn when a rat drops onto you desk. Part of it is burnt out teachers.

This isn't true. Inner city schools have plenty of resources. The school I taught at had a state of the art computer lab. There is more of a problem with vandalism in the inner city schools though.

[Dr Strangelove]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
There are still a number of people who just cannot handles tests. They no the information, but as soon as they are required to test, they freak out and cannot think.

In Virginia these tests start at the 3rd grade. By the time they graduate they should have plenty of time to learn how to take tests. Another possibility would be to allow the failing student to undergo an oral exam by a neutral examiner.

In Virginia kids who have a history of repeated failures usually undergo an independent assessment by a school psychologist to determine what sort of learning problems they're having.

[Kuciwalker]

Plus, federal law mandates that the schools offer 504 plans.

[Agathon]

Originally posted by DRoseDARs
But but but the United States doesn't HAVE an official recognized language. Having one would be racist or somesuch...

As long as it doesn't, it's not permissible for the state to discriminate on those grounds.

Besides, you can't call English your official language in any case. You Americans can't even spell properly and have reduced what was a wonderful language to a series of simian grunts.

[Agathon]

Originally posted by General Ludd

High school is about being indoctrinated into a system of social protocol. It's not about actually achieving anything.

It's also a glorified child-care system where kids are put so that their parents can go to work.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Ted Striker
Yep, the inner city school learning environment is waaaaaaaaaaaayy different from the ones those white and Asian kids go through

And that's part of the problem, everyone should get the same access to the same education

That's something of a red herring. In California all education funds are first sent to the state government who then "normalizes" the revenue so that each school is paid exactly the same on a per student basis no matter where those students are located. Further more magnet schools (where under performing kids are shuffled) receive a bonus amount of money so that more resources can be spent on stuggling students.

Money is not the issue and instead it is cultural. The crap schools tend to be crap because poor people live in the same areas where crap parents, who don't care about their kids, ignore their children and allow them to be failures in life. The social effects of being in a school where 60% of the students are abused by alcoholic parents or who are in gangs is no doubt profound but at the end of the day this is a social issue and not a money issue.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Dr Strangelove
Instead of having a single exit exam why doesn't California institute a system of standardized tests to be administered at various points of the educational process.

They do though a student cannot be failed for how they do on the various standardized test given throughout the school system. Instead, these tests are used to rank schools and parents can look at the test results on line in where they are free to decide which schools their children go to (though the parents are responsible for driving their children to school each day as no buses are offered).

The exit examine was supposed to be a final check to see if students mastered the skills needed to graduate. Unlike the others it is a pass-fail test where failure means you do not graduate though several retakes are allowed.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Agathon
As long as it doesn't, it's not permissible for the state to discriminate on those grounds.

Bull****! I am required to take English classes; I can't substitute Swahili.

A teacher who can only speak Spanish shouldn't be hired in most cases.

And when the state is certifying that someone is qualified to enter the American workforce, it would be inappropriate not to test English proficiency.

[Jaguar]

Originally posted by Kidicious


This isn't true. Inner city schools have plenty of resources. The school I taught at had a state of the art computer lab.

Maybe the teachers were the problem.

[joncha]

[Ted Striker]

Originally posted by Oerdin


That's something of a red herring. In California all education funds are first sent to the state government who then "normalizes" the revenue so that each school is paid exactly the same on a per student basis no matter where those students are located. Further more magnet schools (where under performing kids are shuffled) receive a bonus amount of money so that more resources can be spent on stuggling students.

Money is not the issue and instead it is cultural. The crap schools tend to be crap because poor people live in the same areas where crap parents, who don't care about their kids, ignore their children and allow them to be failures in life. The social effects of being in a school where 60% of the students are abused by alcoholic parents or who are in gangs is no doubt profound but at the end of the day this is a social issue and not a money issue.

That considers state funds only. Many of the more affluent communites subsidize their schools through their own fund programs.

Go visit Irvine and then visit Compton and tell me which place has the better facilities.

[Traianvs]

Originally posted by Oerdin


They do though a student cannot be failed for how they do on the various standardized test given throughout the school system. Instead, these tests are used to rank schools and parents can look at the test results on line in where they are free to decide which schools their children go to (though the parents are responsible for driving their children to school each day as no buses are offered).

The exit examine was supposed to be a final check to see if students mastered the skills needed to graduate. Unlike the others it is a pass-fail test where failure means you do not graduate though several retakes are allowed.

That's appalling not to say absurd. Putting everyone together, and thus giving everybody the same programme is crazy. Dumb people should get easier programmes while smart people should get higher lever courses. Tests are there to make out where each student belongs. That way you'll have less drop-outs (almost none actually because courses are adapted to the student's intelligence. Though if the youngsters are criminals that absolutely don't do anything, then they'll not pass of course)


What strikes me most is that some people barely know how to read or write, as some people claim in this thread. C'mon that's something you learn at age 6-8! Surely teachers must be able to teach everyone (unless they are dyslectic or whatever) how to read and write. Surely they have to see whether the children can catch up or not, whether they can speak proper English or not etc... This is even more important at such a young age because learning languages is easiest when still being a small kid

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Oerdin
Money is not the issue and instead it is cultural.

Right, put all the blame on the ******s and spics!

I always love how people who go to the best schools think that their situation is the same in every school.

One of my best friends taught photography in a school in Cabrini Green. They had no cameras and no film and they had only enough books for half the class (and the books were old and beat up too).

[Adam Smith]

We're Innocent ... (Well, Mostly)

Originally posted by Agathon
You Americans can't even spell properly and have reduced what was a wonderful language to a series of simian grunts.

"The English language is the product of Norman men-at-arms attempting to pick up Saxon barmaids, with equally legitimate results."
- H. Beam Piper

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Kidicious
Of course they know the kids who aren't up to grade level. They go to summer school, take remedial classes etc... They do everything for these kids, but the kids don't master the material enough to do well on tests.

Is it possible to have something like a reduced load programme which takes 5 years instead of 4?