California Judge declares High School diplomas meaningless

[Dinner]

I can't help but feel that the reason 11% of the students can't perform basic skills, like readings, writing, and basic math, is because most of them have been socially permitted through the system. If they were held back a year prior to their senior year then likely they would have mastered the basic material before getting to this point. Just pushing retards through the system isn't the answer.

Holding students back when they fail the courses is the answer. If someone just doesn't care enough about their own future to learn basic skills then it is tragic but they still haven't earned a diploma.

[Last Conformist]

Originally posted by General Ludd


High school is about being indoctrinated into a system of social protocol. It's not about actually achieving anything.

True or not, that's not an answer to my question.

[General Ludd]

Originally posted by Oerdin


Sure, high schools take part in socially indocrinating people but they're also supposed to teach students basic life skills like how to read, how to write, and how to do math.

They should know all of that before high school.


These kids not knowing "the basics" is the symptom of a ****ty education system and an unfair/broken society, it is not the root problem in itself.

Should they get a diploma? I don't really care, high school diplomas have always been meaningless as far as I'm concerned.

I would say that these kids can achieve whatever they want to without geting a diploma, but given that they are probably living in an unsuportive and suppresive environment, maybe not. I don't know how supportive a gesture it would be to give them one of these meaningless diplomas, but certainly they probably do need some form of help to overcome society. The best source of help would probably come from something that is as far removed from the education system (or any other regimented establishment) as possible.

[Dis]

although in defense of the judge, at least in the case of Nevada, some of those tests require basic algebra to pass. Some of the material on those exams is questionable. Do high school students really need to learn algebra if they aren't going to college? Really those tests seem to be testing college skills, not high school skills.

The fact is not everyone can be smart. People will always struggle with subjects such as algebra. The test should only consist of basic math. As they will most likely be a cashier for the rest of their lives, they should at least be able to have a handle on that. Teaching everyone algebra is not necessary.

[General Ludd]

Originally posted by Oerdin

Holding students back when they fail the courses is the answer. If someone just doesn't care enough about their own future to learn basic skills then it is tragic but they still haven't earned a diploma.

A person shouldn't have to "care about their future" to know how to read and write, they simply need to be interested in their environment. School should not be considered a place of investment - children don't learn through threat of failure or the promise of riches, they learn through curiousity. School should foster a healthy environment for children by encouraging them to explore what interest s them, not by telling them what they need to know so that they can invest in their future.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Oerdin
I can't help but feel that the reason 11% of the students can't perform basic skills, like readings, writing, and basic math, is because most of them have been socially permitted through the system. If they were held back a year prior to their senior year then likely they would have mastered the basic material before getting to this point. Just pushing retards through the system isn't the answer.

Holding students back when they fail the courses is the answer. If someone just doesn't care enough about their own future to learn basic skills then it is tragic but they still haven't earned a diploma.

You would have old men in high school. You can attend adult school until you pass the test you know. The schools aren't doing anything wrong.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Dis
although in defense of the judge, at least in the case of Nevada, some of those tests require basic algebra to pass. Some of the material on those exams is questionable. Do high school students really need to learn algebra if they aren't going to college? Really those tests seem to be testing college skills, not high school skills.

The fact is not everyone can be smart. People will always struggle with subjects such as algebra. The test should only consist of basic math. As they will most likely be a cashier for the rest of their lives, they should at least be able to have a handle on that. Teaching everyone algebra is not necessary.

As far as the California test, there is algebra material on the test, but it's only 40%, so you can pass the test and miss all of the algebra material. But I agree that the test should not include algebra, since the jobs that only require a high school diploma don't require knowledge of Algebra.

[Geronimo]

Does anybody know of a link to example questions from the test? I want to see just how basic these skills are.

[Seeker]

"I can't help but feel that the reason 11% of the students can't perform basic skills, like readings, writing, and basic math, is because most of them have been socially permitted through the system. If they were held back a year prior to their senior year then likely they would have mastered the basic material before getting to this point. Just pushing retards through the system isn't the answer."

Way way earlier than that..."social passing" of students is a phemenon that begins in grade school. It's already too late by high school to create a sense of academic achievement.

I had to repeat the second grade for various reasons....would a teacher in one of these districts feel fear of being sued by parents or getting fired by the board if he made grade school kids repeat grades until they learned the required material??

LOL it's funny but here in Korea they have almost the opposite problem..too much focus on academics, scores, and grades. The kids here are often in classrooms from 7AM-11PM. It makes for great scores but you can just see it draining the creativity from young minds.

[OzzyKP]

Originally posted by Ted Striker

Standardized testing

[Dr Strangelove]

Instead of having a single exit exam why doesn't California institute a system of standardized tests to be administered at various points of the educational process. Students who failed would be no be allowed to go on to the next grade until they passed. That would prevent this mess.

[chequita guevara]

There are still a number of people who just cannot handles tests. They no the information, but as soon as they are required to test, they freak out and cannot think.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Oerdin
It really is more of a cultural thing. Whites and Asians go through the same school systems and graduate with a fine education.

But not the same schools. Schools for minorities are generally much poorer, even if the overall school system is good. Part of that is cultural and a result of students who don't give a damn. Part of it is lack of resources. Part of it is crappy resources. It ain't easy to learn when a rat drops onto you desk. Part of it is burnt out teachers.

[Ted Striker]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara

Originally posted by Oerdin
It really is more of a cultural thing. Whites and Asians go through the same school systems and graduate with a fine education.

But not the same schools. Schools for minorities are generally much poorer, even if the overall school system is good. Part of that is cultural and a result of students who don't give a damn. Part of it is lack of resources. Part of it is crappy resources. It ain't easy to learn when a rat drops onto you desk. Part of it is burnt out teachers.

Yep, the inner city school learning environment is waaaaaaaaaaaayy different from the ones those white and Asian kids go through

And that's part of the problem, everyone should get the same access to the same education

[mrmitchell]

Originally posted by Dis
liberal judges

Hey, liberal judges are forcing Arkansas to finally fix its education system. Maybe California needs more of them.