A question about the Christian theory of creation

[Bill3000]

hERE iS tHE mATH -
0=consciousness
1=universe

0/1 = undefinable or zero or singularity
1/0 = 1 or universe

0/1 = 0 in all cases. 1/0 is undefined and is by definition a mathematical singularity. lim(x-->0) 1/x can be equal to -infinity or infinity, depending on which side you are taking the limit from.

[Ned]

Speaking of Genesis, just who were those people Adam and Eve encountered when they left the Garden of Eden?

[DaShi]

Clones.

[Ned]

Why of course, DaShi.

But their presence on Earth sometimes makes me wonder about any Christian that discounts the Theory of Evolution based on Genesis. Could they have actually read the Bible?

[Berzerker]

Ben

It was unformed. You are leaping ahead in the story. It said that the earth was formless and void.

Without form = submerged land
creation = dry land = Earth

Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

The "deep" refers to ocean depths, and water is matter, formed matter. Now, what does God do to bring forth the dry land? The waters under the firmament were gathered together (gravity) and the dry land appeared. That tells us the dry land was submerged, and that explains why Genesis is vague about the status of the dry land before creation. If all God did to "create" "Earth" was gather together the water, then the Earth was under the water. Thats what virtually every creation myth claims, that the water was already here and the creator brought forth mud or earth from below the waters to make the land.

but again I am referring to the 'earth' as the word used in that very first passage, again the earth was without form and void.

But what does that mean? If dry land is submerged by water, what does it become? It aint dry and it aint land, but its still there under the water.

All very fine, but in case you haven't noticed, this thread is about the Christian account of creation. This is all off-topic to our purpose. If we want to understand the Christian account, then we must confine ourselves to what the Christians actually say.

Would that be the Church's interpretation? Cuz there are Christians who believed what I'm saying, the Gospel of Judas even supports "my" interpretation - Jesus told Judas the creator is not God and not to be worshiped.

According to whom? You? Christians? The Christians say that this is the biblical account of Creation, ie for the universe, not just the solar system.

Y'all are mis-reading the text, I'm using what Genesis says about Heaven and Earth. Heaven cannot be the universe because Heaven is the firmament God placed amidst the already existing waters. You can check yourself, I have, nowhere in the Bible does it say God created this water.

Berz, get your bible quote the bible if you want to contribute anything to the discussion. It doesn't help you to muddle about 'thinking' you know what the verses say.

Sheesh Ben, you couldn't read the first few verses of Genesis? Verses 1:6-10 describe Heaven and Earth, I just assumed you were familiar with the text. Here:

6 Then God said, "Let there be an expanse in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters."

7 God made the expanse, and separated the waters which were below the expanse from the waters which were above the expanse; and it was so.

8 God called the expanse heaven. And there was evening and there was morning, a second day.

9 Then God said, "Let the waters below the heavens be gathered into one place, and let the dry land appear"; and it was so.

10 God called the dry land earth, and the gathering of the waters He called seas; and God saw that it was good.

Heaven was placed amidst the waters on the 2nd day and the Earth was revealed on the 3rd day. How did Heaven become the universe and how did Earth become this planet? That isn't how God defined these words.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Ned
But their presence on Earth sometimes makes me wonder about any Christian that discounts the Theory of Evolution based on Genesis. Could they have actually read the Bible?

I am sure they did - and interepret the bible in their own, hm, unique way.

For example: Answers in Genesis

[Berzerker]

Speaking of Genesis, just who were those people Adam and Eve encountered when they left the Garden of Eden?

I believe those would be the people God(s) told to be fruitful and multiply before the Garden story. Adam and Eve weren't the first people, they were just the people God allowed into the Garden.

[Ned]

Originally posted by Berzerker


I believe those would be the people God(s) told to be fruitful and multiply before the Garden story. Adam and Eve weren't the first people, they were just the people God allowed into the Garden.

Something like that. Which means that Genesis is NOT INCONSISTENT with the TOE on its face. One actually has to ignore what the book says to achieve that plateau of ignorance.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Again the story(s) in Gensis are not consistent with itself. There are two distinct tellings of creation.

[MRT144]

the question i have is why? why would god create anything? what is his motive?

[Kontiki]

He needed to create flawed beings in his image (except, of course, for the flaws) to worship him, and punish those who didn't. It's how he gets his kicks. It's awfully lonely existing eternally outside of time with no future or past and no peers to keep your perfect, attention-craving self company.

[Ben Kenobi]

Without form = submerged land
creation = dry land = Earth

'deep' has also been translated as 'abyss', which I think is the better understanding. You think of the ocean depths because they are like the abyss. Cold, dark, empty and void.

Don't forget void. The trouble here, is that we are relying on key words from one passage in order to come to an understanding of this period of creation.

If all God did to "create" "Earth" was gather together the water, then the Earth was under the water. Thats what virtually every creation myth claims, that the water was already here and the creator brought forth mud or earth from below the waters to make the land.

Well, it isn't what Christians claim, again because of my point of believing that God is eternal, existing before anything else, and creating everything from himself.

But what does that mean? If dry land is submerged by water, what does it become? It aint dry and it aint land, but its still there under the water.

The question is what does it mean when they say the earth was both empty and without form? I think the best way to understand that, is how I have put it here. The matter has been created but is still under the abyss, and needs to be pulled from the abyss to take form.

Would that be the Church's interpretation? Cuz there are Christians who believed what I'm saying, the Gospel of Judas even supports "my" interpretation - Jesus told Judas the creator is not God and not to be worshiped.

Any other Christians other then a dubious forgery? Look Berz, if this is worth my time at all, can you at least acknowledge a Christian ought to believe in an eternal Creator God who made the world, and everything in the universe?

Y'all are mis-reading the text, I'm using what Genesis says about Heaven and Earth. Heaven cannot be the universe because Heaven is the firmament God placed amidst the already existing waters. You can check yourself, I have, nowhere in the Bible does it say God created this water.

Well, if you take 'deep' to mean 'abyss' then it makes much more sense.

Sheesh Ben, you couldn't read the first few verses of Genesis? Verses 1:6-10 describe Heaven and Earth, I just assumed you were familiar with the text.

I have it right in front of me. I've been looking at Genesis 1 throughout the thread.

6 Then God said, "Let there be an expanse in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters."

7 God made the expanse, and separated the waters which were below the expanse from the waters which were above the expanse; and it was so.

8 God called the expanse heaven. And there was evening and there was morning, a second day.

9 Then God said, "Let the waters below the heavens be gathered into one place, and let the dry land appear"; and it was so.

10 God called the dry land earth, and the gathering of the waters He called seas; and God saw that it was good.

Heaven was placed amidst the waters on the 2nd day and the Earth was revealed on the 3rd day. How did Heaven become the universe and how did Earth become this planet? That isn't how God defined these words.

And this is why I wanted you to cite this. NIV says 'sky' instead of heaven both times the word is used, and gives 'land' instead of 'earth' to denote the dry ground.

Which bible are you using Berz? I'm not saying your bible is wrong, just that I want to know where you are coming from, so I can work with that, rather then the NIV.

[Ben Kenobi]

He needed to create flawed beings in his image (except, of course, for the flaws) to worship him, and punish those who didn't. It's how he gets his kicks. It's awfully lonely existing eternally outside of time with no future or past and no peers to keep your perfect, attention-craving self company.

Why do men have a desire to build and to create?

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi


Why do men have a desire to build and to create?

Gives them something to do when they're not busy destroying stuff?

[Kidlicious]

Actually we create stuff to destroy stuff.