USFTA - United States Federal Travel Agency

[Kaak]

Cyclotron, i did in #49.

[Cyclotron]

Originally posted by Kaak
Cyclotron, i did in #49.

Whaaaa?

Please explain how bilingual initiatives constitute "social accomodations," in light of the fact that English is not the official language of the United States. Please furthermore explain how it is that you know these initiatives - which could well be for any spanish-speaking person, including citizens, residents, and non-Mexicans generally - are accomodations to "Mexicans."

Wow...so now focusing on a group of people is racist? Did you read the definition? I posted it for you right up there. I'm sick of you uber sensative whine bags trying to turn everything racist. It's ridiculous. And I don't think that was meant to complain about bilingual initiatives, but mearly to point out that expecting such in mexico would be ummm...comical. Have you ever been to Mexico? and if so, have you ever been some where in mexico that wasn't turisty?

You can make observations about groups of people without those observations being racist.

by the way, I like how you tried to completely change the subject and start spouting off about illegal revolutions etc etc when your weak arguments were broken

Are you sure this was your answer to my post?

[Kaak]

Please explain how bilingual initiatives constitute "social accomodations," in light of the fact that English is not the official language of the United States. Please furthermore explain how it is that you know these initiatives - which could well be for any spanish-speaking person, including citizens, residents, and non-Mexicans generally - are accomodations to "Mexicans."

Well, I was also making references to the parts of the original post refering to flags and cinco de mayo celebrations (which I enjoy by the way )


lol

but if i must...

If X in an accomodation to someone who speaks spanish and a mexican speaks spanish, X is an accomodation to a mexican. I wouldn't propose that they only help mexicans, but they definately do help mexicans. But like i said, that wasn't specifically what I was talking about in the post to which you responded.

Anyway, I'm trying to speak within my realm of experience here, so as not to be racist or prejudice There aren't many people here or where my parents live that speak spanish that aren't mexican. So in those places, it would be safe to say that the bilingual accomodations (which i don't think are exactly big accomodations, since most the people working these jobs are bilingual mexicans anyway) were made for mexicans.

[Cyclotron]

Originally posted by Kaak
If X in an accomodation to someone who speaks spanish and a mexican speaks spanish, X is an accomodation to a mexican. I wouldn't propose that they only help mexicans, but they definately do help mexicans. But like i said, that wasn't specifically what I was talking about in the post to which you responded.

This would only be true if most or all spanish-speaking people were mexicans. This is clearly not true. It is no more true than to say that it's a concession to Cubans, or Puerto Ricans. I would hazard a guess that most people who speak spanish in the United States are citizens... off hand, here's a cite from wikipedia. Clearly, that's not the best source in the world, but if it's even in the ballpark it constitutes food for thought.

[Mexican American] describes both United States citizens of Mexican ancestry (14 million in 2003) and Mexican citizens who reside in the United States (10 million in 2003). According to the Pew Hispanic Center, in mid-2001, an additional 4.5 million Mexicans were residing illegally in the United States. Mexican Americans account for 64% of the Hispanic or Latino population of the United States.

If citizens of mexican ancestry make up 14 million out of around 28.5 million or so "mexican americans" (about half) and mexican-americans make up about 64% of latinos in the US (about 2 thirds), then actual Mexicans make up only a third of the spanish-speaking population, because mexican-american citizens are, in fact, Americans, not Mexicans. This puts the lie to an assertion that bilingual measures are "for mexicans," unless I really screwed up, which is also possible.

[Kaak]

Originally posted by Cyclotron


This would only be true if most or all spanish-speaking people were mexicans.

a) you haven't taken a logic class have you?
b) most of the spanish speaking people in texas are Mexican.

[Velociryx]

{Rant Mode}

At the risk of being labelled a bigot and a racist (again), I'll admit that I got a chuckle out of the original post.

A decent (tho clearly ameture) tongue-in-cheek, vent-the-frustrations at the (quite real) immigration issues this country is currently facing.

The greater part of humor lies in exaggeration, and clearly, that was the device used here. Surely you folks are smart enough to realize that, yes? Bunch of smart boys and girls like you? C'mon. And surely your virgin ears have heard worse on any HBO comedy special, or in any one of ten thousand different comedy clubs, nation-wide. Nothing in the first post that's any "worse" than some of the stuff I've heard Sam Kennison, Billy Crystal, Andrew (Dice) Clay, George Carlin, Robin Williams, and others spout off, and if you're honest with yourselves, you'll admit that this is so (perhaps not as funny, but that's a different debate....no one here took him to task for the humor, but for the supposed "racism.")

Get over yourselves, and get over this bull$hit of getting your panties in a wad every time someone says something that someone, somewhere, might take offense at. You're acting like a bunch of Godd@mned Puritans.

What's funnier is that many of you who would SWEAR on a stack of bibles (PC alert - my bad, some of you are aethist....sorry *smirk*...d'oh! Damn...that was bigoted too, wannit?) that you're soooooo open minded are generally the first ones to leap at someone's jugular with the "bigot" and "racist" card. Those of you who are so quick to laugh at the Fundies are AT LEAST as quick (and every bit as rabid) to go on a Fundy-Style witch hunt.

At the drop of a damned hat, especially here lately.

What? Did Dubya put something in the world water supply?

Here's a clue...any time you look for racism...ANY TIME....you will find it.

If you don't, your brain will invent some, just so you can pat yourself on the back for being right.

Kaak....for what it's worth, I don't think you're a racist, and on behalf of the PC Brigade, I apologize. I'm sure when you posted that, you had noooooo idea the kinds of foaming-at-the-mouth responses you were gonna get.

-=Vel=-
{/Rant off}

PS: And before anybody even tries to counter with the argument that this is a place for serious discussion, and he shouldn't have posted something like this...blah blah blah.....I'll only remind you to look around. This is 'poly OT. Not exactly the first place you look in terms of serious philosophical discussion.

Further, the owners of the site have not ordered anybody to pull the plug on this thread. That should serve as an additional clue.

-v.

[Kaak]

Thanks V, well put.

[MrFun]

I didn't call Kaak racist -- he quoted some garbage that is suppose to pass as humor though, and THAT material is tinged with racism and xenophobia.

[Velociryx]

The fact that you presented it in a positive light in your OP means that you completely agree with the garbage you quoted

Oh....Okay.

Then the words above were someone else's, right?

Let me see if I follow the logic:

1) You say that the piece posted is laced with racism and xenophobia

2) You say that since he posted it, he "must completely agree with it" (see above...your words)

3) Somehow though, when it's pointed out to you, now you never did no such thing?

Does that about cover it?

Did I nail it down pretty well?

And I didn't name any names, but I'm glad you had the brass to step forward. Kudos for that , especially in light of the strange hush that befell the rest of the Brigade.

-=Vel=-

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

The fact that you presented it in a positive light in your OP means that you completely agree with the garbage you quoted

Considering the only original text Kaak actually put into the OP was.....

yeah, yeah, i got this from myspace....

I find it a bit of a stretch to say this was presented in a positive light in the OP. In fact one would imply from this vast expose penned by Kaak, that it was his impression that the material was presented for humor sake without endorsement /refutation of the actual views.

EDIT Damn - Vel said much more on the matter that I didn't bother to read a tthe time.

Never mind. Go about your business nothing to see here.

[Cyclotron]

Originally posted by Kaak
a) you haven't taken a logic class have you?

I'm open to criticism, but this isn't it. Would you like to be more specific?

b) most of the spanish speaking people in texas are Mexican.

Good for Texas, but your OP was titled the United States Federal Travel Agency.

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe
I find it a bit of a stretch to say this was presented in a positive light in the OP. In fact one would imply from this vast expose penned by Kaak, that it was his impression that the material was presented for humor sake without endorsement /refutation of the actual views.

It's cowardice of the highest order to start a discussion by quoting somebody and not coming out in favour or against that quote.

[Velociryx]

Og

-=Vel=-

[KrazyHorse]

especially in light of the strange hush that befell the rest of the Brigade

Hate to tell you this, buddy, but if your "brigade" includes snoopy, Imran and myself then we stopped posting because we'd already ass-raped Kaakie

No need to keep it up.

[Velociryx]

It's cowardice of the highest order to start a discussion by quoting somebody and not coming out in favour or against that quote.

Tripe. Og's position one way or the other doesn't change the message one whit. Nor does it change what he and I both pointed out.

Again tho....all those brain cells in your head, you already knew that, right?

Admit it...you're open minded....as long as "the other side" agrees with you.

Soon as someone says the first thing you don't like....off we go. Racist. Bigot. Idiot.

So much for open mindedness.

-=Vel=-

NOT TO MENTION (again) the fact that this was obviously posted as a humorous piece. Again...I think everybody who has chimed in so far has enough active brain cells to recognize that fact.

Correct me if I'm wrong tho.