USFTA - United States Federal Travel Agency

[Cyclotron]

Originally posted by Kaak
Everyone is affected by affirmative action. Some people positively, so negatively. As such, there is no need to state it.

And you think this isn't true of bilingual education? I wonder why it is that immigrants' issues like education are so controversial if that's the case.

[Patroklos]

Mexican (the country) hypocricy.

Almost as funny as the usually OMFG YOU ARE A BIGOT shout downs form the usual suspects.

More funny, the same will call somebody else a reactionary is some other thread today.

[Kaak]

Actually Cyclo, I'm a big proponent of multilingual education...I can get by in 4 languages, and I think it's tragic that most americans can't onle speak one or two.

[Cyclotron]

Originally posted by Kaak
Actually Cyclo, I'm a big proponent of multilingual education...I can get by in 4 languages, and I think it's tragic that most americans can't onle speak one or two.

Sure thing. But the OP - and in this case I mean the post, not the poster - ridicules government assistance to spanish speaking Americans right along with assistance to illegal immigrants, whether in education or political rights. To take those services, which I see as important parts of American society, and dismiss them as so much pandering to Mexico, is incorrect and irresponsible.

To address the "racism" charges others have made, the more significant problem, perhaps, is with the tone of the post. By portraying a fictional American "illegal" in Mexico as essentially a greedy SOB who enjoys flaunting laws and stealing from the government, it is saying quite boldly that Mexicans in America do likewise. That's the point of the satire. I do find it bigoted to propose that the illegal immigrants who come here are "thieves" acting out of malicious intent. It hearily reinforces the stereotype of Mexicans as lazy bums that are only in America because they're too lethargic to do work in Mexico. I'm not calling any specific person a racist, but the post does reinforce racist stereotypes, and when such a post is posted without comment, people will tend to assume that the poster is in tacit agreement with it, or at least sufficiently ignorant of its inherent racism to merit criticism.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by Cyclotron
To address the "racism" charges others have made, the more significant problem, perhaps, is with the tone of the post. By portraying a fictional American "illegal" in Mexico as essentially a greedy SOB who enjoys flaunting laws and stealing from the government, it is saying quite boldly that Mexicans in America do likewise. That's the point of the satire. I do find it bigoted to propose that the illegal immigrants who come here are "thieves" acting out of malicious intent. It hearily reinforces the stereotype of Mexicans as lazy bums that are only in America because they're too lethargic to do work in Mexico. I'm not calling any specific person a racist, but the post does reinforce racist stereotypes, and when such a post is posted without comment, people will tend to assume that the poster is in tacit agreement with it, or at least sufficiently ignorant of its inherent racism to merit criticism.

Bingo... and that is also why KH has kicked everyone else's ass on this thread. To fail to realize the above is to be purposely thickheaded.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

If by kicked ass you mean cried "Not in the face!" then you have the startings of a point.

[Kaak]

*yawn* I don't think the OP does any such thing. It takes things that actually happen, exaggerates them, and then flips them. It implies no maliciousness. And it doesn't say anything about them being lazy. Anyone who has much experience with mexicans knows that they work hard and play hard. Infact, it makes specific reference to jobs. And imran, KH would have actually had to make a point to kick anything in this thread, and that he repeatedly failed to do.

[snoopy369]

BS. The OP clearly implies what Cyclo just stated, that Mexicans are lazy and a burden on the system. If you can't see that, you need to look more carefully inward and consider well whether you're able to consider such things from a neutral viewpoint ...

The OP makes several blanket statements about Mexicans (through satire) that are blatant stereotyping and prejudiced. Such arguments were the core of Jim Crow, and we don't have room in this country for Jim Crow bigots in relation to ANY race or ethnicity.

[Imran Siddiqui]

1. Free medical care for my entire family.

2. English-speaking government bureaucrats for all services I might need, whether I use them or not.

9. I do not plan to have any car insurance, and I won't make any effort to learn local traffic laws.

12. I would also like to have a nice job without paying any taxes, and don't enforce any labor laws or tax laws.

[q=Kaak]It Doesn't Say Anything About Them Being Lazy.[/q]

Since when has getting everything for free without doing anything (or making any effort) NOT equal lazy?

[q=Kaak]It Implies No Maliciousness.[/q]





All it does is imply maliciousness!

[Kaak]

Hmmm....you guys jump off the deep end blatantly displaying your ignorance of the situation.

--if they get free medical care, it's because of two reasons. 1. they don't have to pay taxes, because employers pay them in cash "under the table". 2.Illegals don't make a lot of money and are often supporting large families.

as for 2...how does that = lazy?

9. this is clearly an exaggeration, but everyone here knows someone who has been in an auto accident with an illegal that didn't have insurance. Just a fact.

12. refers to work. EI Labor, EI not lazy.


Nice try though Valiant effort over all to try to make something seem like it is something it isn't.

And snoopy, I'm sorry you don't know any better. I hope one day your opinions are better informed.

edit: snoop, could you please go work on something you know a little about, like humanitas, instead of the ignorant over-righteous uber sensative pc bullcrap you keep posting here??? We are all looking forward to the game and would appreciate it if you would stop wasting time

[Cyclotron]

Originally posted by Kaak
--if they get free medical care, it's because of two reasons. 1. they don't have to pay taxes, because employers pay them in cash "under the table". 2.Illegals don't make a lot of money and are often supporting large families.

But immigrant families do not generally have an expectation that they will recieve free medical care. Most do not view it as an entitlement.

My mother has worked for county health services in California all her life, specifically for children in low income families. She knows that some - perhaps many - of the people she authorizes for tens of thousands of dollars in wheelchairs, physical therapy, and so on are illegal immigrants. She also knows from first hand experience that many of them are scared sh*tless about going into a government facility, probably thinking that CCS will turn them over to the INS. These people do not enter presuming that their needs will be taken care of by a deep-pocketed US government - some may, but certainly not the majority. Most use US government services as a last resort, because when your kid is severely handicapped and needs care, you don't have a choice.

If the OP phrased that:

"I am very poor and would like the Mexican government to help my children lead a normal life if it becomes necessary, because the US government is corrupt and can't help me, and I have nobody else to turn to."

This would not be bigoted. This would be truth. This is not:

Please let him know that I will be expecting the following:

1. Free medical care for my entire family.

This is, in fact, thinly veiled racism, or at the very least an immense failure to grasp the radically different situations that define Mexico and America.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by Cyclotron


But immigrant families do not generally have an expectation that they will recieve free medical care. Most do not view it as an entitlement.

...

If the OP phrased that:

"I am very poor and would like the Mexican government to help my children lead a normal life if it becomes necessary, because the US government is corrupt and can't help me, and I have nobody else to turn to."

This would not be bigoted. This would be truth. This is not:

Please let him know that I will be expecting the following:

1. Free medical care for my entire family.

This is, in fact, thinly veiled racism, or at the very least an immense failure to grasp the radically different situations that define Mexico and America.

Very well put. Kaak, you are being willfully blind. The OP is suggesting there is an EXPECTATION of free care, as in that is the reason they are coming over to the US, because they will be on easy street.

Even you have to realize that. Even you can't have your head in the sand that far!

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by snoopy369
BS. The OP clearly implies what Cyclo just stated, that Mexicans are lazy and a burden on the system. If you can't see that, you need to look more carefully inward and consider well whether you're able to consider such things from a neutral viewpoint ...

The OP makes several blanket statements about Mexicans (through satire) that are blatant stereotyping and prejudiced. Such arguments were the core of Jim Crow, and we don't have room in this country for Jim Crow bigots in relation to ANY race or ethnicity.

Unfortunately Kaak cannot look at this neutrally. I think it is why the term 'bigot' can fit for him here. He just claps along and says right on! Even though he won't admit it, it seems that he accepts the author's premist that Mexicans are coming over just to fleece the systgem.

[Tuberski]

Some racist quotes:

Attention mexican, stop blaming your problems on the republicans. Get a job. Look at this you don't even walk fast.

Those Beaners can't build a bike, they might steal one though.

ACK!

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Kaak
Everyone is affected by affirmative action. Some people positively, so negatively. As such, there is no need to state it.

The thing about AA is it is a policy to level the playing fields.

Ideally, the government should not be involved and let people be chosen on their merits alone. However, due to obvious historical reasons, some groups got the shaft. As a result, it is much harder for members of these groups to develop fully due to social-economical reasons.

So AA is needed until the field is even, then it would have served its purpose.