The creeping influence of OzzyKP continues to spread...

[Flip McWho]

Which assumes that the parents will be responsible for the kiddies drinking habits. Parties will still reign of course but ones without parently control could be shut down by the cops.

The problem with this:

I think the time period kids go off to college or start work is a logical place to draw our arbitrary line.

Is that (here at least) people can leave school to go to work earlier than they can to leave school to go to college. There's people who'll leave as soon as they can to go off and work (thats 16 I think here) whereas those that wanna continue their education have to finish school. So your've got another line thats not quite even.

I have voted in almost every election I have had the chance to vote in since turning 18. MOst of my peers do not vote. I really can;t see 16 and 17 year olds voting in greater numbers than 18 year olds, and the turn out amongst 18 year olds is pathetic.

Heres an idea. Lets ban 18yr olds from voting. I mean the majority don't care so why should any of them have a say.

[Sava]

I don't think the "sex age" should be below 18.

It just starts to open up a can of worms.

I mean, things are fine now... individual age of consent laws, fine... whatever they are, I don't care. Let each state or whatever handle them. But 15? Across the board?

So a 40 year old can legally have sex with a 15 year old?

Cmon man, that is just not right.

That's just too close to 13 and 14 year olds... I mean... you need to think about the realities of these laws and stuff.

I'd prefer a system that just sets things up so prosecutors have some discretion.

Over 18... you can **** who you want. Period.

Under 18, there are certain rules... like prosecutorial discretion comes into play maybe... I dunno. Just so that each case can be handled on it's merits. Because there are 17 year olds with 16 year old girlfriends... then the 17 year old turns 18... then all of a sudden it's statutory rape?

No there should be a sort of graduated system that takes the age difference into account.

I'd say 16 is okay... if it's another person 16-19... or something close... then maybe, the discretion of the prosecutor.

Alcohol?

I don't know. I lean towards 18... but 21 is not that unreasonable. However, you can do so much at 18, like go die in Iraq, get married, etc... so why not alcohol?

Might as well be 18...

oh... and 18 for



18 for voting as well.

Driving... 16... with greater restrictions until age 18...


crime... 18...

but at 16, more of a "graduated" system where it's not just juvie and a slap on the wrist

however, if we are not giving kids the right to vote, we shouldn't be charging them as full adults... or putting them to death... at least until they turn 18

[Flip McWho]

So a 40 year old can legally have sex with a 15 year old?

Yeah I suppose thats a good point. But how many 40yr olds have sex with a 15yr old. But yeah maybe a graduated system. 18-20 (aka body development done age) anybody. but a system like you proposed for under.
And saying 15 is like to close to 14, 13 is like saying well 18 is to close to 17 or 16. Needa have a better reason than that.

As far as the alcohol thing is concerned I'm trying to remove it from the whole not mature enough (in the head) to drink. I find that fairly offensive really. Nobody matures at the same age. Heck theres bloody 50 yr olds who aren't mature enough to handle their alcohol. I'm trying to remove it from such a useless term onto something thats a bit more concrete. When the body finishes developing. Less chance of screwing up your body. Its also cause I'd legalise some other drugs as well (like pot, e, lsd) and these shouldn't really be used till you're bodies pretty much developed. I guess alcohols fairly similar, they all take a toll on the body afterall.

I also agree with this

if we are not giving kids the right to vote, we shouldn't be charging them as full adults...

[Flip McWho]

The thing is if you can leave home and try to make you're own way at 16 then it seems stupid to make them wait till 18 till they can actually become full citizens. It just seems to arbitrary.

[Wycoff]

Originally posted by Sava
however, if we are not giving kids the right to vote, we shouldn't be charging them as full adults... or putting them to death... at least until they turn 18

We're not putting them to death if they're under 18. Roper v. Simmons made that unconstitutional last year.

[Sava]

Originally posted by Flip McWho


But how many 40yr olds have sex with a 15yr old.

well, a lotta creepy older guys out there would be cruisin the high schools if it were legal

And saying 15 is like to close to 14, 13 is like saying well 18 is to close to 17 or 16. Needa have a better reason than that.

but the difference between younger ages can be a lot bigger... 13-14 can be a huge jump, developmentally... but it can happen between 14-15 even... or maybe between 13-15

you see? and it's different between the difference between 19-21 for instance...

or say, 33-35

which is why the graduated system is better I think...

no system will be perfect because everyone is different... but at least this way, things can be catered in a way so it's in stages.

[Flip McWho]

Actually whats the difference between an 23yr old and a 40yr old when sexs concerned. The 40's probably better at it. I mean it's not like you're gonna have 40yr olds suddenly praying on 15 yr olds. The families still involved. And sex without consent is just rape. If a 15 yr old wants to have sex with a 40yr old they can now. They just can't tell anyone about it. Of course the family can prosecute.

But then sexual education should be taught at schools starting from the beginning of high school too.

[Wycoff]

Originally posted by Flip McWho
But then sexual education should be taught at schools starting from the beginning of high school too.

It's taught starting in 6th or 7th grade (11 or 12 years old).

[Flip McWho]

They should also teach about drugs in high school level too (maybe starting from 4th form) This should encompass the effects of all the main drugs plus the health effects, what's it made off, a whole bunch of information about them. Not a whole bunch of DRUGS ARE BAD MMMMKAY!!!!!!!!

People are gonna take drugs no matter whether you want them to or not. Might as well let them know what they're getting into.

[Flip McWho]

It's taught starting in 6th or 7th grade (11 or 12 years old).

Yeah I know. Its just not very well taught.

Though I do agree with the graduated system idea of Sava's there.

[Jon Miller]

it definitely should be taught before highschool

pregnant 8th graders suck

JM

[Flip McWho]

From my experience of sex ed. All they ever teach you was you might catch this STD or STI they're called now aren't they. Or maybe that STI, or maybe this one over here. And thats about it.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Wycoff


If they're not pandering to 18-30, why would they start pandering to17-30? It's ridiculous to argue that the 17 year olds are brimming with political activism, only to have it snuffed out the moment they turn 18. If the youth of the country was so interested in voting at 17, then they'd do it when they turned 18.

As it happens right now, the youngest cohort of legal voters tend to be people with an awful lot of instability in their lives -- going off to college or first jobs, etc. That's a situation that's not conducive to voting and, accordingly, turnout is low for the youngest voters. But forming the habit of non-voting tends to breed further non-voting in the future. Sub-18 people tend to have a lot more stability in their lives than do 18-25 year-olds and it would therefore probably be easier to inculcate habits of democratic participation if you dropped the age limit.

I have to admit, this sounds like it has some merit.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Rufus T. Firefly
Highlights from the youth rights timeline...

2010 - Amendment to lower voting age to 14 passes

2012 - Congress passes bill witholding funds from states that continue to enforce mandatory school attendence

2013 - All government documents now available in "l33t" translation

2014 - "Young/Old Coalition" passes omnibus bill: Social Security taxes doubled; drinking age eliminated

2016 - Medical marijuana legalized

2017 - Acne added to list of conditions treatable by medical marijuana

2018 - Ongoing Iraq debacle makes conscription necessary; draft for 9-13 year-olds instituted

Imagnine what'll happen if we give women the vote.

Oh, wait...

[Wycoff]

Originally posted by notyoueither
I have to admit, this sounds like it has some merit.

It's a bad argument because they drill voting and participation into us from the time we enter into Kindergarten. It's not like 18 year olds suddenly discover that we have a representative process and are overwhelmed by that concept. Besides, how much of a hassle is it for an 18 year old to vote?